Where people go wrong in Testing Sliders, PLEASE READ!

[SpectreBugg]

I have been coming to the Madden sliders forum here on OS since madden 08' (previously I used other sites) and the one thing I have noticed over the years is that A lot of newcomers, and some veterans alike, go about testing their own sliders, and other peoples sliders, the wrong way. Call me crazy, but while there can be some variation from person to person, there are still right ways, and wrong ways, of testing sliders. There are too many people that come here and plug in a set of sliders, play half a game, or even a whole game, and then decide they are no good. Maybe their average QB is 12/14 for 250 yards and 2 touchdowns, or their average HB has 9 rushes for 115 yards, and all of a sudden the sliders are bad. you finish the game and move on to the next set. This is where people go wrong.

If you have ever looked at the game to game stats for players in the NFL you would notice that a lot of them vary quite a bit each game. Just because your playing with the seahawks and your rookie QB (wilson) completes 25/29 passes for 300 yards and 2 touchdowns doesnt mean that next game he wont come out and go 15/29 for 150 yards and 2 interceptions.

I will admit that there are a lot of things you can learn from sliders after 1 game, or even half a game, but if your going to complain about stats your going to have to play more then 1 game. I am using playmakers All-pro sliders and I have seen my HB (adrian Peterson) go from a game with 185 yards and a 7.8 YPC average, to the next game with 85 yards and a 2.9 YPC average.

I normally test sliders on an 8 game basis. plug the sliders in, play half a season (8 games total) and then check the overall stats. compare your total pass and rush offense to the rest of the league. compare your individual stats to the rest of the league, and then base your changes off of your findings. If your HB has 500 more yards then anyone else, then you probably need to make running more difficult for yourself. If your team has 20 more sacks then any other team, then your pass rushing is too high (or maybe your coverage is too good). If you dont have time for 8 game tests, then at the very least give them 3 or 4 games. I really don't think you can say you have tested a set of sliders until you have played atleast 3 or 4 games with them.

I think it would be a great idea for some of the veteran slider makers around here (you know who you are) to get together and share some of the basic processes they use not only to develop sliders, but to fully test them as well. I know I would be happy share all the info I have.

Sorry f this has been done and I just somehow missed it. Thank you.

[charter04]

I'm not a veteran as far as posting but, I've been making sliders for while. The way I test is pretty simple. I want sliders that are ratings based. I take a team and make them my test team. I change the ratings of about 16 players. Half of them I use as my no skill players. I lower their key ratings to 0 or close to it. I make the other plays my 99 overall guys. Then I play games and adjust sliders as I go.

An example would be QB. I put in the terrible player and lower the pass acc slider until he can't ever complete a pass. At default a guy like hat still has great accuracy! Once I lower it I put in the 99 QB. If he is still very accurate I move to next position and slider. I do that for every part of the game. I also put my test team as the CPU and test all the same stuff for them. It's crazy how different the sliders have to be different to make the CPU players ratings he same as the user.

Next I get two normal teams and play games. I make adjustment but, try not to go to far away from my original sliders because they are all about ratings.

The most difficult thing is that DL/OL interactions are terrible in EA games. To get that part of the game to totally respect ratings I have to let the CPU always control the D-Line. If a human controls a D-line player they would get tons of sacks so I have to change things to compensate for that.

I hope this helps someone with slider making. Ratings do matter in Madden just not on default.

[SpectreBugg]

Quote: Originally Posted by charter04

I'm not a veteran as far as posting but, I've been making sliders for while. The way I test is pretty simple. I want sliders that are ratings based. I take a team and make them my test team. I change the ratings of about 16 players. Half of them I use as my no skill players. I lower their key ratings to 0 or close to it. I make the other plays my 99 overall guys. Then I play games and adjust sliders as I go. An example would be QB. I put in the terrible player and lower the pass acc slider until he can't ever complete a pass. At default a guy like hat still has great accuracy! Once I lower it I put in the 99 QB. If he is still very accurate I move to next position and slider. I do that for every part of the game. I also put my test team as the CPU and test all the same stuff for them. It's crazy how different the sliders have to be different to make the CPU players ratings he same as the user. Next I get two normal teams and play games. I make adjustment but, try not to go to far away from my original sliders because they are all about ratings. The most difficult thing is that DL/OL interactions are terrible in EA games. To get that part of the game to totally respect ratings I have to let the CPU always control the D-Line. If a human controls a D-line player they would get tons of sacks so I have to change things to compensate for that. I hope this helps someone with slider making. Ratings do matter in Madden just not on default.

Now this is the type of information I am talking about. I gave up on trying to make ratings matter much and started focusing on stats a long time ago because ratings seemed like a lost cause. It never crossed my mind to test ratings in such an extreme way. Adjusting sliders to make ratings matter, and then tweaking them based on stats sounds like a good way to approach it. Luckily I have never been interested in controlling the D line, so I havent seen that much. I prefer to control my safeties now but i do blow some deep coverages sometimes. It's kind of nice though because its not something I have seen much in M13 and it feels almost relaistic when I make a mistake on playaction or jump the underneath route, only to be beat deep.

[SpectreBugg]

Anybody else care to share some of their theory's for developing and testing sliders. I think the more people who have a good understanding of how to work with sliders, the better off the slider community will be.

[charter04]

I don't think some guys want to because it would be giving away their slider making secrets. LOL. I could care less. I want people to know.

[SpectreBugg]

Quote: Originally Posted by charter04

I don't think some guys want to because it would be giving away their slider making secrets. LOL. I could care less. I want people to know.

Lol... well, I guess if your doing it for the fame or something that could maybe make sense, We aren't exactly making money here.

For those of you who are doing it to help make madden a better experience, please share. Thank you!

[MarketingWiz]

Quote: Originally Posted by charter04

I'm not a veteran as far as posting but, I've been making sliders for while. The way I test is pretty simple. I want sliders that are ratings based. I take a team and make them my test team. I change the ratings of about 16 players. Half of them I use as my no skill players. I lower their key ratings to 0 or close to it. I make the other plays my 99 overall guys. Then I play games and adjust sliders as I go. An example would be QB. I put in the terrible player and lower the pass acc slider until he can't ever complete a pass. At default a guy like hat still has great accuracy! Once I lower it I put in the 99 QB. If he is still very accurate I move to next position and slider. I do that for every part of the game. I also put my test team as the CPU and test all the same stuff for them. It's crazy how different the sliders have to be different to make the CPU players ratings he same as the user. Next I get two normal teams and play games. I make adjustment but, try not to go to far away from my original sliders because they are all about ratings. The most difficult thing is that DL/OL interactions are terrible in EA games. To get that part of the game to totally respect ratings I have to let the CPU always control the D-Line. If a human controls a D-line player they would get tons of sacks so I have to change things to compensate for that. I hope this helps someone with slider making. Ratings do matter in Madden just not on default.

I concur with the phantombug..... You MUST play out a slider set or theory at least half a season with complete games.... I have said this numerous times on my thread....

I also concur with Charter04. Charter04's approach is among one of several techniques that I use when constructing or testing a slider set. Similarly, I agree that in general, the Madden O & D line animations/AI logic/execution, is among the weakest links in the Madden series of video games. If you notice, on outside runs, the CPU O-line CANNOT hold their blocks or "seal off" the end to allow the CPU runner to hit the running lane thus creating those piss poor rushing numbers for the CPU running game.

The bottom line is that the CPU AI logic has been broken for years on Madden. Sliders are but a mere "band-aid" to create some progressive level of difficulty for those stick jockeys that have better hand eye coordination and finger dexterity than the general Madden population. My bottom line is "fun factor". If I have fun playing Madden and feel a sense of challenge that I can lose a game, if I don't cover the rock, avoid double coverage throws, or fail to make adjustments to what the CPU is throwing my way, then I am good. Peace.

[PMO]

Quote: Originally Posted by charter04

I don't think some guys want to because it would be giving away their slider making secrets. LOL. I could care less. I want people to know.

Charter u r def a cool slider guru, btw Patch 3 drops OCT 16th, makes CCM play like Play Now games..............all sliders now must be changed lol...........have fun Guru lol