And yet another slider thread. All penalty sliders tweaked

[OhMrHanky]

Well, I got worried the sliders were broken when I beat down the 13-1 GB packers and held Rodgers to less than 300 yds. Final score was 42-17. Defense played really solid. I beat the Saints in final game of season fairly handily. Now, it's playoff time. It's the bucs. As the falcons, I've played these jerks twice before. They beat me kind of good once. Freeman was a pain. Anyways, this was the most realistic game I've ever played. Totally happy with the sliders. And, having played the bucs twice before while tweaking the sliders, I was able to see the differences. Let me say that I really feel I've nailed the CPU QB timing issue with a combo of sliders that came together. In the previous game, he took about 7 sacks, and they were mostly coverage sacks that he hung out too long. Not this time. I did sack him 5 times, but they all felt real. He really threw the ball at the right time. His final completion % was 68. I'm happy any time QB is under 70. And, really, felt very realistic. Fun, back and forth defensive game. I coughed up a fumble early and went down 7-3 after mark Ingram juked 2 of my defenders perfectly on the 3 yd line. They drove down to the goaline again. I INT'd freeman in the end zone on a slant. Gorgeous play by CB. Ultimately, I'm down 14-10 at the half after a nice bucs drive finished with a well placed 3rd down TD pass. 2nd half, just can't find the end zone, I go down 21-16 after a missed 2 point conversion. They scored a TD, and right away, I got a 62 yd run for TD to keep pace. Felt like momentum was on my side. Some nice defensive stuffs, a few quality sacks to get the ball back. I drive it down to the 4 yd line and just can't punch it in. I kick the FG to go down 21-19 with 5-6 min left. I've got to stop them. Which I do, with 3-4 min left. 3 and out!!! Ridiculous, just can't get it done. They're blitzing a lot now, and I'm not picking up on it. I punt to their 11. They get a first down on screen pass that I was ready for, but just got outplayed and blocked well. 2 min warning. Now, I stop them, and get the ball back with 1:30 left. I just need a FG. A couple passes down to their 40. Less than a minute left. I try a screen because they keep blitzing. 1 yd!! Lame. I call a play I don't think they're ready for and keep 2 backs in to block. I snap the ball, they blitz, I can't see the man I want, but the other WR looks open, I throw it, and the CB makes a wicked INT! Cripes, man, after looking at the replay, the INT was a little off but realistic enough for a good CB, so it was alright. The blitz threw Matty Ice off, I missed seeing the WIDE OPEN WR that I wanted to throw to because of the blitz, and led me into the INT. that's the ball game. I'm out of the playoffs. Tough loss, but seriously, most realistic game I've played to date. Very happy with these sliders. In that game, I had a big run, a big pass early, I got sacked, their blitzing flustered me, I got 5 sacks on them, but freeman really stood in the pocket properly and threw the ball on time most of the time. The sacks were all very realistic, no cheese from me. My Int in the end zone really looked like a wicked CB play ready for that route and freeman wanted to go there the whole time and BAM, int. The juke by Ingram at the 3 was possibly the most wicked spin move ever timed in between my 2 defenders that left that whiffing at air. The final INT will haunt Matty ice forever (along with all of the REAL ones. Lol). Fantastic game, though, really. I hope others get to play at least one game like that. I will also say that u may whoop some teams if their QB sux or your D is overpowered, but it will play real. The game should play real. I hope to not have to tweak these anymore, I think they're good to go.


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[forme95]

Quote: Originally Posted by OhMrHanky

Man, oh, man. I have NO IDEA what that slider does!!!! LOL. It sound simple, right? Pass coverage. So, if I up to 100, there should be better coverage, right? Zone, man, I don't care, better coverage, right? The DBs are probably on their WRs like white on rice, right? Ugggghhhh, this may be the most ridiculous slider in the whole f-ing game, man. I apologize for my gruffness, not directed at you, I promise, directed at this slider. To your question, yes, I have tested/played with it at 100. Then, I tested/played with it at 0. Now, to the question, what did I find? I'll tell you what I found, exactly NOTHING!!! LOL, I am as serious as I can be on that, man. I saw absolutely no difference in coverage. This slider does nothing/is nothing. As such, I choose to set such a silly slider to zero and take it out of the equation. For me, what I've seen, is that Def/Off PI make the BIGGEST difference in coverage. When set high and equal to each other (I have this at 59/59, and really like the coverage I'm seeing as a whole), You see tighter coverage, in general. And, specifically, you see tighter MAN coverage. Possibly, that pass coverage slider is trying to help Zone, but I didn't notice it helping any. At 62 and higher, things get a little out of control and harder to keep things under control. In fact, at higher Off PI settings, I believe I have noticed more impact blocking going on from the offense which has normally benefited the human moreso than the cpu and made the run game overpowered. That's a big reason why I have chosen to keep this down at 59/59. Going too high causes too much aggression and the game plays out of control. That's a little off topic as to your question, but somewhat related. I have also tried pass coverage at 31 just to see if there's something there (I have always seen all sliders seem to change from 32 to 31 noticeably, so I thought I would try this one there), and to my not so surprise, I saw nothing. I don't see the CBs cutting any better, I don't see the safeties playing any tighter coverage. In fact, that's one of the biggest problems with the game that can't even be fixed with pass interference settings. I would assume you've noticed that if your safeties are playing zone, even if the CBs are playing man, as long as the safeties are playing zone, right at the snap, what do they do? They backpedal and hang out to see if someone comes into their zone. If crossing routes are run or a running play is called, they are WAY out of position and just can't get back into the play. Totally annoying, totally broken. As a somewhat workaround to that, I try to play cover 1 more frequently, now. It leaves you exposed over the top a bit (which the cpu doesn't exploit enough), but it allows your SS to play man on the TE RB, so at the snap, he is moving FORWARD. This can help D a lot. haha, long message, lot of messing with sliders, a lot of useless knowledge gained. What a horrible obsession to have. All I want is a football game that plays like a football game!!!!! Bring back NFL 2K, PLEASE!!!!! lol.

I just tried to do the same test last night too. Played Browns (me) @ KC. Used this same vs teams with all tests. My findings.............
Both were tested with React time at 100. There was NO difference between 0 and 100. On 100 though, I did find that there were 2 or 3 BIG pass plays by Smith but had 3 picks in the first half, like he tried to go deep more often. At 0, I found no big play balls or picks. Smith didnt try to throw deep. The only big thing I noticed was with cvg at 100, The running game (yes running) seemed way toned down. The big plays, the cpu actually threw better then me (coach mode) well except for the 3 picks to my 0.
I tested a half with 20 cvg and 95 react. Same teams. Again didnt seem to see any different coverage. Saw some tight and some over cushioned coveraged.
Dont know if this helps, or makes you more confused as I am lol

[OhMrHanky]

Quote: Originally Posted by forme95

I just tried to do the same test last night too. Played Browns (me) @ KC. Used this same vs teams with all tests. My findings............. Both were tested with React time at 100. There was NO difference between 0 and 100. On 100 though, I did find that there were 2 or 3 BIG pass plays by Smith but had 3 picks in the first half, like he tried to go deep more often. At 0, I found no big play balls or picks. Smith didnt try to throw deep. The only big thing I noticed was with cvg at 100, The running game (yes running) seemed way toned down. The big plays, the cpu actually threw better then me (coach mode) well except for the 3 picks to my 0. I tested a half with 20 cvg and 95 react. Same teams. Again didnt seem to see any different coverage. Saw some tight and some over cushioned coveraged. Dont know if this helps, or makes you more confused as I am lol

Haha, u are NO HELP, my man!! Lol. More like the pass coverage slider is no help!! That's interesting if it tones down the running. I've felt that pass Rx does that, too (not much, and maybe it's more my theory). I do feel that pass Rx at 100 allows for the entire D to 'see' what play is happening sooner, whether it's a pass or rush. However, I haven't fully tested this or pass coverage to the extent I tested other sliders because these just don't feel like they do anything, so I just don't know what to think anymore. I appreciate the fact that others are seeing the same thing, though, which is NOTHING!! Lol. I don't think I've seen anyone post, 'gotta have pass coverage at 100, u get totally sick coverage there,' u know? So, to me these are broken, or whatever they actually do just doesn't help/hurt the game at all. So, I'm probably going to stick with pass cov at 0 and pass Rx at 100, and allow for the penalty sliders to help with defensive coverage/aggression/pursuit angles. I'm pretty happy with my setup right now, but it'd be nice if all sliders did what they should.


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[ich2232]

Lovin' the sliders so far but I have a few questions. I've tested the Coverage slider and I know 100 is tighter than 0 (for my game at least, seems like it depends on which store you bought your game at! freakin rediculous) wondering if that's to compliment other sliders or if I can change it up. I feel like the stats are realistic but I'm looking for a bit more of a challenge in the passing game. For me it would simply be quicker decision making. So would I be messing up the sets if I changed speed to very fast? I know the slightest modification can F**k up a whole set lol! Also, to me the threshold is not realistic. This is just my opinion of course! But, I never understood everyone's gripe with RunningBacks getting caught by Defensive Ends or QB's not being able to escape the pocket, or my favorite one "My Receivers aren't burning CB's enough that's totally unrealistic!" (yea right...cause CBs aren't the most athletic human beings on the planet or anything) I think this video really sums up the GameSpeed Threshold debate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztHfr5uBIqk
A 6' 3" 325 lb. lineman completely running down an OLB lol. It was a return of 56 yrds too so it wasn't simply a matter of angle! I don't think there is really such a thing as "outrunning" an opposing player in the NFL. It's simply just not possibly. DE DeMarcus Ware runs a 4.56 40 yard dash. RB LeSean McCoy's 40? .....4.5.....These guys in the League are absolute freaks in every aspect of the word.
So I am wondering, will changing the gamespeed mess up everythign else? I think it will improve the coverage and decision making for the Player.

[ich2232]

*changing threshold

[OhMrHanky]

The pass coverage thing: I think you're good setting that to whatever u like. I don't 'think' it will mess with any other sliders. I really think my penalty sliders can be ported to almost any skill slider sets, so I think you're ok there. And, if u feel it's better coverage, go for it. I am definitely not set on it and really can't find any spot where I see any difference, personally, so this one is up to you. Like I said, I don't 'think' it would mess with any other sliders. I really feel my penalty sliders are the primary force in creating defensive pressure/pursuit/angles and pass coverage in general (along with pass blocking, and yes, pass blocking at 26 or 28 allows for GREATER blockshed than zero, so I would go with those settings for sure).
The threshold thing: I have been playing with it at 32 forever, now, so I'm not switching. I've got a 93 speed 93 ACC RB who still feels SLOW to me!! Haha, and I've got an 80 SPD back who has trouble setting the edge and gets caught from behind often enough. For me, what I don't like at other threshold settings, was that awful looking animation where a Dlineman would be nowhere near the back and dive and shoestring tackle him out of nowhere. This wasn't realistic to me. I'm fine with the Dline setting the edge and killing my back, but I'm not ok with me offensively setting the edge, already having gotten by the lineman who are still being blocked, and then suddenly, WHOAH WTF?? I got tackled by HIM??!! So, this is also a personal choice. I think there should be more of a speed difference between players than less, that's for sure. So, really, it came down to THAT animation for me, really. It happened way too often and felt unrealistic. If a back gets by the line, and jukes and spins, and the whole time a Dlineman is chasing him down and catches him, that's fine. As far as the Larry Allen thing, I do think that was an angle thing quite honestly, and he took off pretty good, the LB also ran wide first toward the sideline giving Allen more opportunity with the right angle to track him down, so that's kind of a trivial video to me. Don't get me wrong, some linemen should be able to catch LBs downfield, but if u tell me a 300 lb. Dlineman should catch a speedy RB from behind if there's nothing but open space in front of both of them, I say you're dead wrong. In the case of Allen, I hope madden gave him an 80 speed rating. Lol. That's fast for a lineman and decent for a LB so that would make them comparable. You're definitely right that this would make things more difficult, though, but once again, definitely a personal choice, so go for what u like. I think 32 is realistic, u must like 100? To each his own on that one. I think u will find QBs (mobile ones) will still be mobile, but I think I've seen a good mix of mobile QBs running some and trying to run some and getting stuffed, so I think I'm good on scrambling QBs. The other thing with threshold, when I say a Dlineman shouldn't be able to catch a RB or if I don't think a CB should catch a WR, I'm definitely talking about the case where the back or WR is ALREADY past his man, he has ALREADY beaten his man and is ahead by 2-5 steps. On normal threshold or slower threshold, what often seems to happen in these cases is the defensive player seems to gain super human speed and catch up. And, I would also argue that what u see in the NFL (or college for that matter), is that even when a SLOWER WR catches the ball ahead of a faster CB, the WR will still make it to the end zone because of momentum and desire, and the CB just is not going to catch him. And, of course, sometimes he should, and I believe this threshold allows for both those things. And, now I realize, there are so many examples and different situations, ill stop myself short and I'll simply say I think 32 threshold provides for the correct speed threshold of the players, in general, but this is definitely a matter of choice. Go with what u like and I think the gameplay should be about the same except u will probably see more defensive games with your threshold and more tackles at the line of scrimmage ( on both sides of the ball, I would imagine).


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[forme95]

Hanky, if u test/tweek. Try pci at 80. I feel it is just the right aggressiveness for the D when it comes to reacting. Higher, it seems the d will get caught out of position anticipating the Qb scrambling. To the point of, if the defender is covering. He will break off coverage bc he thinks the Qb is taking off. Where a good Qb will get to the los and then throw to the receiver that he left. At a lower setting, it seems the d will wait till the Qb runs to him before reacting. Even if there is 15 yards between them bc he doesn't want to leave his post so to say. I'm using the Qb scrambling bc its the easiest to explain in text.

[OhMrHanky]

That's interesting, and I have noticed LBs not reacting to the QB scrambling to the point of the QB running right towards the LB, but if the QB is still behind the LOS, the LB stays in his zone, by the time the QB runs past the LOS, the LB is way out of position. I have noticed, however, as a whole, with my setup, the mobile QBs are both successful at scrambling, and not successful, so I kind of like what I'm seeing from mobile QBs as far as this particular example is concerned. And, I have tested upping PCI as I've seen a few others doing so and liking what they saw from the defense. I tried upping this to 71 to see what I saw, and ultimately, I saw 2 NEGATIVE things. 1. On defense, I started to see those WTF moments from defenders who open their arms wide too early and simply get run by. 2. 'Floaty' balls thrown by QBs. This is actually more of a concern to me. I tested PCI by itself a while back and remember seeing the same thing at 100, and realized then that this slider can't be set too high, but didn't know what the crux/threshold was. Well, I think it's around 70, so I'm not willing to go past 70 on this one. By 'floaty' balls, I mean that u will NEVER see the QB throw a bullet pass, AND u may never see yourself throw a bullet pass no matter how long you hold the trow button. When I tested the last time with all my other sliders set pretty close to what they are now, and adjusted PCI to 71, I was playing against Cam Newton. And, I was looking for 'floaty' balls and saw it on the very first pass play and it continued throughout the qtr. basically, what u see on a 10 yd out pattern, is the QB throws the ball right on his cut, but instead of rifling the pass in there, he touch passes and throws a higher arching pass than he should. This REALLY looks horrible IMO and kills the realism for me. I want to see touch passes, I want to see bullets, I want to see lobs, I want to see everything. And, I had to check just to make sure, but Cam Newton has a 97 throw power!!!! And, he was throwing these goofy looking 10 yd lobs!! Horrible. You'll see loftier kicks with more hang time, too, and I think that's the problem with this slider. I think EA is saying, 'ok. PCI, how does this happen? Well, it happens when the kicking team player gets to the punt returner before the ball is there. Ok, how do we make that happen? Well, we could let the ball stay in the air longer, just give it a little more loft, then the defender might get there too soon and hit the return man. Bingo, punt catch interference.' Sadly, this slider, along with all penalty sliders, affects ALL gameplay, not just punts/kicks, so what do we get? Floaty, lofty passes with ridiculous hang time, even on quick slants and outs, so I don't think I can raise this too high. Once again, I'd love to see better d, but the floaty pass trade off is a no go for me.


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