Madden Fans' Take On ESPN

[ODogg]

Quote: Originally Posted by drae2

I think that the age of the person who is playing both games have something to do with preference. I wasn't going to pick up Madden this year, but did anyway. For myself being in my mid 30's, and the guys I play the games with there is no comparision. 2K5 is the most realistic IMOP. Yes, Madden's franchise is the best without a doubt, but I feel ESPN's gameplay is more suited for and older crowd which makes it more attractive to me. Most of us older gamers want to play a more sim based game. And as a Madden player since day one, I can say Madden does not have a more sim feel than 2k5. Again, these are just my opinions.

Its not age, i'm 34 and I prefer Madden for same reason you cite you prefer ESPN. I prefer simulation over arcade and although both Madden and ESPN are great games to me Madden seems more well balanced and closer to a sim than ESPN does. Also, you even admit Maddens franchise is the best and that is a big portion of making a game a simulation overall so I don't see how that can be demarginalized as a "oh yeah that's better but.." feature because franchise is a HUGE portion of what makes a football game a sim.

[seanmac]

Oh I would disagree. Franchise options have very little to do with making a game a better or worse simulation. The issue is how it plays on the field.

[ODogg]

Quote: Originally Posted by seanmac

Oh I would disagree. Franchise options have very little to do with making a game a better or worse simulation. The issue is how it plays on the field.

Well I guess it's opinion as to whether a single game gameplay makes a simulation, no matter how great the gameplay. To me the NFL is not just about a single game, a simulation implies to me a reproduction of the real NFL which not only encompasses on the field gameplay but also the overall season and management of a team. I believe the NFL is more than just about on the field individual games; if it was then teams records would mean nothing. On the field gameplay in video games is hugely important of course but is only one part of what makes up the NFL and hence cannot be the only part in a game that makes up the simulated NFL. Without a good franchise mode I think the simulation aspect goes down vastly, no matter how good the on-field gameplay is.

However, I guess if playing random games vs cpu or other people is all you care about then the on field gameplay is all that matters in regards to what makes a sim but to myself and alot of other people I know a sim encompasses the NFL package as a whole and franchise management and other off the field issues in addition to actual gameplay, is a big part of what makes the overall game package a simulation or not.

[jmood88]

Quote: Originally Posted by ODogg

Its not age, i'm 34 and I prefer Madden for same reason you cite you prefer ESPN. I prefer simulation over arcade and although both Madden and ESPN are great games to me Madden seems more well balanced and closer to a sim than ESPN does. Also, you even admit Maddens franchise is the best and that is a big portion of making a game a simulation overall so I don't see how that can be demarginalized as a "oh yeah that's better but.." feature because franchise is a HUGE portion of what makes a football game a sim.

You play the game to actually play, not do franchise stuff. That does not add to realism at all. I like the franchise mode in games but it has nothing at all to the actual gameplay.

[jmood88]

Quote: Originally Posted by ODogg

Well I guess it's opinion as to whether a single game gameplay makes a simulation, no matter how great the gameplay. To me the NFL is not just about a single game, a simulation implies to me a reproduction of the real NFL which not only encompasses on the field gameplay but also the overall season and management of a team. I believe the NFL is more than just about on the field individual games; if it was then teams records would mean nothing. On the field gameplay in video games is hugely important of course but is only one part of what makes up the NFL and hence cannot be the only part in a game that makes up the simulated NFL. Without a good franchise mode I think the simulation aspect goes down vastly, no matter how good the on-field gameplay is. However, I guess if playing random games vs cpu or other people is all you care about then the on field gameplay is all that matters in regards to what makes a sim but to myself and alot of other people I know a sim encompasses the NFL package as a whole and franchise management and other off the field issues in addition to actual gameplay, is a big part of what makes the overall game package a simulation or not.

If franchise is more important to you then acutal on field gameplay then why don't you play a text football game like front office football? They have infinetly more options and are better at the franchise stuff then madden.

[ODogg]

Quote: Originally Posted by jmood88

You play the game to actually play, not do franchise stuff. That does not add to realism at all. I like the franchise mode in games but it has nothing at all to the actual gameplay.

I never said franchise had to do anything with gameplay, I said that you can't have a simulation of the NFL if franchise is not done correctly. How a game works in franchise mode for most people greatly contributes to whether the game is a simulation of the real NFL.

Team management, free agents, the draft are all part of the real NFL experience and if those aren't done right in a game then the game may play a great game single game wise but it ceases to be a simulation and is simply an arcade game, ie something you play random games in like you do at the arcade.

I think the confusion here is that you and others are saying simulation in regards to gameplay and if it is realistic, while that is part of making a game a simulation, for most people they believe that to call it a true simulation of the NFL it must be a complete package all around, because as I said, the real NFL is more than just on the field singular gameplay experiences, it is a complete simulation of the league and all aspects of it, not just how someone tackles when you play or how many animations are there when a QB throws..

[ODogg]

Quote: Originally Posted by jmood88

If franchise is more important to you then acutal on field gameplay then why don't you play a text football game like front office football? They have infinetly more options and are better at the franchise stuff then madden.

Again, I never said that. I said that all aspects of it is important to creating a realistic simulation. Having one or the other does not make it a complete simulation of the NFL. Going back to your arguement let me put this out there - what would ESPN fans do if there was only exhibition game mode in ESPN next year and no season or franchise at all? They wouldn't be too happy I don't believe. Because even though ESPNs franchise may not be the best it is required to be a legitimate football game which means for the vast majority of people a simulation extends beyond just mere on the field gameplay and also includes franchise and how realistically it plays.

To have a realistic simulation of the NFL you *must* have both the gameplay and all of the other areas such as franchise done up to par to call it a simulation. The same reason I do not consider ESPN to be a true simulation because it's franchise is sub-par is the same reason that I do not consider text only sims to be real and complete simulations, they do not encompass both aspects of gameplay and off the field management which a true simulation should do.

That's why I feel that although Madden is far from perfect in both gameplay and off the field management it offers the best combination of the two creating the best simulation overall. As I said before, if all you care about is on the field gameplay and you prefer ESPN then by all means you can say that is the best simulation but for most people when they play an NFL game they expect there to be a high level of quality in BOTH on the field gameplay and franchise in order to be called a realistic simulation of the sport.

[ODogg]

Oh and in case you don't want to read all of the above and reply I think it boils down to this, you're saying a simulation is the game with the best on-field gameplay but I am saying to be a true simulation the game must reproduces not just on-field gameplay but the sport both on and off the field. I believe saying a game is a simulation implies more than just it is a simulation of on-field gameplay, it should reference the sport as a whole in all facets the best that it possibly can.