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This needs to be read, not replied with flames.

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Old 07-31-2005, 08:24 PM   #9
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Re: This needs to be read, not replied with flames.

I think EA's exclusivity was definitely a bad deal for gamers, however, it would be a waste for EA to "dramatically improve" its game with the current consoles about to be replaced by Next Gen. By now, people know what they are getting with Madden, and with this being its last "true" year on PS2/Xbox, those expecting major changes and improvements are being unfair in their expectations.

EA sells millions of copies each year, and for them to make major changes and risk losing a huge chunk of their consumers prior to the jump to Next Gen would be a bad decision from any standpoint.

The forum crowd speaks out in opposition to Madden's lack of change, and it's likely justified, but the forum crowd in in the minority when it comes to Madden sales. So ultimately, EA cares less about our (the forum crowds) opinions, than the do the profits obtained from the masses, that don't discuss the game in detail at online forums.
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Old 07-31-2005, 08:26 PM   #10
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Re: This needs to be read, not replied with flames.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mossfan8480
I disagree; there are still video game creators who make games for "artistic" purposes.
Sure there are, but they aren't in it for profit then, and are instead interested in the artistic values.

These developers are clearly excluded from my argument, because I don't consider them to be in business with the sole goal of turning a profit; which EA and other huge game developers are.
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Old 07-31-2005, 08:29 PM   #11
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Re: This needs to be read, not replied with flames.

you say people are FORCED to buy the game because they love football games.

THATS NOT IT. THEY ARE STUBBORN and STILL BUY, and still COMPLAIN. They know what to expect and still play.

JUST LEAVE THIS FORUM AND WEBSITE and not BUY the PRODUCT.

thats the bottonline
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Old 07-31-2005, 08:31 PM   #12
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Re: This needs to be read, not replied with flames.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimplication
Sure there are, but they aren't in it for profit then, and are instead interested in the artistic values.

These developers are clearly excluded from my argument, because I don't consider them to be in business with the sole goal of turning a profit; which EA and other huge game developers are.
Yeah, it's a shame and it is ruining the video game industry in terms of quality just like the music industry.
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Old 07-31-2005, 08:33 PM   #13
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Re: This needs to be read, not replied with flames.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RubenDouglas
you say people are FORCED to buy the game because they love football games.

THATS NOT IT. THEY ARE STUBBORN and STILL BUY, and still COMPLAIN. They know what to expect and still play.

JUST LEAVE THIS FORUM AND WEBSITE and not BUY the PRODUCT.

thats the bottonline
If videogames are an addiction, then he is kind of forced to buy Madden 2006 since he needs his NFL fix and there is no other game to buy.

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Old 07-31-2005, 08:57 PM   #14
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Re: This needs to be read, not replied with flames.

while i agree with the creator of the thread, i also can see how it is flat out impossible to expect anything less than flame wars
Quote:
The reason threads get locked is because posters constantly cross the line between criticism and flamboyant fanboyism.
That basically says it all and it's 100% true. Not everyone, but a lot of people fall into this trap. Case and point. If a person describes a flaw in a game/company they don't like, they'll do it in a derogatory way. If it's in a game/company they do like or support, they'll downplay it as if it's just a simple big or flaw. It's human nature and there's rarely a way around it.

About the bottom line thing, i think Mossfan said it best
Quote:
If videogames are an addiction, then he kind of is forced to buy Madden 2006 since he needs his NFL fix and there is no other game to buy.
In a way, people are forced to buy a game they don't intend to at all. We're all here for a reason and it's not just because we like video games. There are tons of people out there who casucally like a game, yet dont feel the need to nitpick it, analyze it, and share opinions about it with other gamers. Most of us here are a lot more serious than just that. That's why we are here, so in that sense, a lot of us are going to fall into that boat of "Buying the game regardless because we need to either see it ourselves, or just own the newest game's rendition".

If we can kind of agree with what i said above about buying it regardless, and how many people fall into that trap of supporting one company over the other (in any way), then it's going to be pretty obvious the chaos a complaint thread will cause. Nevermind the flamewars that will come, but imagine how many arguments just would come in other threads like "why post that here, take it to the complaint thread" every someone just wants to post a simple comment. We should take a minute to realize the age spectrum here and maturity spectrum that goes along with that. That's a lot of ill will that could be generated for things people are going to post indirectly in various other threads regardless.

All in all, we have anyone from the ages of 12-42 posting here at any given moment, nevermind how everyone within that spectrum has vastly different levels of maturity. The mods have enough work as it is already. Adding a specific thread just for complaints would only go to concentrate a lot of time and energy to moderate one thread needlessly. There's just no way to hope that a thread like that would stay civil with the huge differences everyone has in age, opinions, and levels of maturity.
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Old 07-31-2005, 08:57 PM   #15
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Re: This needs to be read, not replied with flames.

Heres part of an old article from consolesports.net about EA's complacency when it comes to graphics...

I’m not at all impressed with the still screenshots of Madden 2006’s graphics. Now, that doesn’t mean I think the game will be good or bad, because I would never make such a judgment on screenshots alone. Still, I think after what appears to be the 6th release of the Madden 2001 graphics engine with enhanced textures, EA is ripe for some criticism by anyone seeing even these still shots. Anyone at all familiar with the Madden franchise will probably recognize the player models as more of what we are used to- and have gotten used to- since 2001. Granted, EA could surprise us with mad frame-rates and thousands of extra animations, but I think its safe to say- we have what looks to be “last year’s models” in these screenshots.
Perhaps we could go one step further and honestly say that we have “2001’s models, with enhanced textures and slightly more polygons on the pads.”

It is because of this trend that I feel EA is losing some fans and earning some deserved criticism. I’m also of the opinion that Electronic Arts has been disappointing the members of the gaming populace who deem themselves to be what is referred to as “Graphic-Whores” for a number of years now on most of their sports franchises. I’m also of the opinion that even gamers that don’t claim to be “Graphic-Whores” (or “GW”s for short) also have desire for some level of visual enhancement in their sports games from release to release. I know I do, and I know of many others who do. Addressing this need – or NOT addressing it- is where myself and many other people feel that EA’s sports games haven’t lived up to expectations for several years now. From some of the other forum boards I follow, I see this trend as an ever-growing complaint about the EA football games since about 2002 after the release of Sega’s NFL 2K3, which myself and others often feel looked so good that EA should have reacted with a new engine and super enhanced graphics for Madden 2004.) Needless to say, we didn’t get it. And, at the risk of judging screenshot graphics, I don’t think we will get it with this Madden/NCAA 2006 release either.

Meanwhile, in the 2 years since NFL 2K3, Visual Concepts always managed to really blow out the graphics on their football product, reaching what I personally felt was a graphic peak of excellence with ESPN NFL 2K5 on XBOX, while EA appeared to merely pushed some quasi-enhanced dazzle knit jersey/pant textures for parts of their players uniforms. Keep in mind, I don’t believe that graphics are the end-all, be-all of the greatness of any football video game. That said, I also feel its something that should not be relatively ignored over the span of 5 game releases. This is seemingly what EA has done, and it appears that the same might be true of the Madden 2006 graphics- again- if only by the screenshots.

I once wrote an article for the old www.football-gaming.com called “Under The Hood, The Engine Is The Key” way back before the release of Madden 2004 (probably July of 2003). In the article, I predicted that EA might get caught in an unfortunate rut of “graphic engine-rehashing” until the next gen systems shipped. (At that time, the Next Gen Systems were thought to be releasing in late 2004). So, at that time- I was assuming that in a worst case scenario, we’d have to tolerate Madden’s “same-ol” graphics only through Madden 2005, but with an option to buy Madden for the Next Gen systems on 2005 as well. As we know now, those systems got pushed back 2 years later than expected, but that didn’t at all change EA’s reliance on the same-old Madden 2001 engine.

But I also feel we need to step back a second and remember EA’s recent claim that “Madden hasn’t done away with the competition, it has to compete with other popular games like Halo, etc.” Well, I think it is safe to say that if any of the publishers of other non-sports games decided to utilize the same basic graphics engine for SIX consecutive releases (and for 6 years in a row), their would be deserved criticism. Could you imagine if Id Software released Doom III using the old Quake II graphics engine from 1998? Could you imagine if Warcraft III had come out using the Warcraft II engine? Could you imagine if GTA San Andreas had the same graphics as GTA III, and the exact same city size, cars, and limited polygon engine? Now, lets take it one step further- multiply those proposed graphic “re-releases” by six years. Now do you see my point?

Electronic Arts really needs to address this problem. As gamers, we want good graphics and expect more improvement year to year. Its hard NOT to say that EA has been ignoring this fact in favor of “same old stuff.” Don’t get me wrong, I’m hoping all the additions – those we don’t know about yet- will make up for some of this. However, I don’t see any way around the fact that EA’s 2006 football graphics appear to be pushing the same-ol “Staleness” as they have for the past five years. It’s also embarrassing when you consider just how little they have utilized the advanced graphics capabilities of the XBOX. (Vicarious Visions sure did when they made Doom III for XBOX!) To me, that’s disappointing. We’ll see what they can do.

However, if EA really believes that they have to compete with games from other genres, I think they had better start doing much better visuals to keep up with those games. As of this moment, it appears that the rut continues at least in terms of the graphics engine. That is indeed unfortunate, and at this moment I really can’t disagree with people who expected graphic enhancement of the series…

..and have been mostly ignored for what appears to be five releases now.

Hopefully, the feature list will be so fat that many of us can overlook this fact. Graphics ARE NOT everything, and that’s a fact. However, lets face it- there’s a little “graphics whore” in all of us. The sooner EA realizes this fact, the less criticism they will face. Sadly, by comparison to what was once Madden’s competition, it is nearly impossible to say anything other than Electronic Arts was quite lazy in the football graphics department during the PS2/XBOX generation of consoles. I would certainly hope such a trend IS NOT repeated on the next generation of consoles. I sure as hell hope that Madden NFL 2007 on X2 (or whatever) doesn’t look nearly identical to Madden NFL 2012 (with merely a few enhanced textures/shading).

EA, please take note. The grumbling noises you hear while on the web and on sports game forums are the “graphics whores” in all of us.

…and they (EA) would be very wise to learn from this “grumbling”.
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Old 07-31-2005, 08:58 PM   #16
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Re: This needs to be read, not replied with flames.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimplication
I think EA's exclusivity was definitely a bad deal for gamers, however, it would be a waste for EA to "dramatically improve" its game with the current consoles about to be replaced by Next Gen.
^^^^ Here I actually disagree. Look at what Take 2 has once again done for NBA 2K6. They have started over, to what looks like a work of genius if it all pans out. Yet they aren't making excuses for Nex-Gen. We aren't spending $50 bucks this year for Nex-Gen. It simply boils down to once again, CARING about what you release, and the quality of your products.

It could also be that EA has made the name for itself years ago, and other Companies are trying to reach this plateau.
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