done with the passing cone?

[coogrfan]

Quote: Originally Posted by stewaat

I'm haven't really started playing this game too much due to the greatness of NCAA, but to the people who try to say people who don't use the cone like an arcade game, you are ridiculous. Last year playing the normal game was considered sim, and now since there's a new cone out if you play last year's game it turned into an arcade game. I've played about 2 games total on Madden and I've had it since the first day, it just really hasn't pulled me away from NCAA yet. But when I do play it, I will give the cone a try. I haven't really like it so far. When you pass in any football game, you read the defense, snap the ball, look for your primary receiver, and then go down your list of receivers. I don't know who brought up the point of they don't like the idea that you can blindly throw the ball on the money to someone who isn't in your cone. But don't you have to at least take a second and read that WR's position. When you are looking at someone on the left sideline, it takes time to switch your eyes and focus on the right side of the field, which IMO is more than realistic to compensate for a real QB taking his time to read progressions. The cone is not necessary, and don't bash people who don't use it. Some people think it is a vital part of the game, and other feel it is a gimmick. I've played Madden every year since the beginning, and through the first couple games I am leaning towards the gimmick side.

In response to this, I'm going to cut and paste something I posted in this thread a few days ago:

Quote: Originally Posted by coogrfan

We accept without question that it's valid to limit what players at other positions can do in the game based on their attributes, why is this (qb awareness) any different? If Jerome Bettis was outrunning db's, or Warrick Dunn was running over lb's, people would howl about how totally unrealistic that was. What's the difference between that and allowing Kyle Boller or Michael Vick to pick apart defenses like they were Peyton Manning? The cone forces you to use avg. qb's differently than you would a Pro Bowler. Imo it's the best innovation in console fb gaming since the Madden first introduced the "above and behind the qb" camera angle.

In response to that...why don't they do something for the awareness of running backs, wide receivers, tight ends, linebackers...etc.

Awareness is for basically simulating games, it plays no part in the game you play. You control the people and the awareness of them is based on your ability to read the defense and so on.

EDIT : Do we need vision cones for every position now to make it realistic? The quarterbacks are different from each other based on their physical attributes in the game, so it's not the same and not as easy to pick apart a defense with a lesser QB.

[coogrfan]

Quote: Originally Posted by stewaat

In response to that...why don't they do something for the awareness of running backs, wide receivers, tight ends, linebackers...etc. Awareness is for basically simulating games, it plays no part in the game you play. You control the people and the awareness of them is based on your ability to read the defense and so on.

That's not entirely true. Remember that you start every passing play w/the cpu controlling the other 10 guys on offense. Until you actually take control of the intended receiver, that players awareness rating is a factor in the success or failure of the play.

It's true that you as the player are still making the decisions. But this is the first console fb title to really force the gamer to take into account who your qb is when you call plays, in much the same way that we currently consider our rb (i.e. calling lots of outside runs for Jerome Bettis is probably not a good idea, etc.). That makes the game more of a sim than it has been previously, which is the main reason I like it so much.

[mercalnd]

Quote: Originally Posted by stewaat

Do we need vision cones for every position now to make it realistic? The quarterbacks are different from each other based on their physical attributes in the game, so it's not the same and not as easy to pick apart a defense with a lesser QB.

You've got a pretty good point. Next year, we might see the cone on other ball carriers and you won't be able to juke to avoid someone that the carrier is not looking at.

I still say that a real QB has some sensory hints when he plays that we don't even though we have a bird's eye view. If I stand somewhere with my eyes closed and there are people running all around me, I'll still have a pretty good sense of their movements and directions. It's the same with a pass rush. Not to mention OL guys occasionally yelling at you when someone is coming up. So it's somewhat of a tradeoff.

[coogrfan]

Quote: Originally Posted by stewaat

In response to that...why don't they do something for the awareness of running backs, wide receivers, tight ends, linebackers...etc. Awareness is for basically simulating games, it plays no part in the game you play. You control the people and the awareness of them is based on your ability to read the defense and so on. EDIT : Do we need vision cones for every position now to make it realistic? The quarterbacks are different from each other based on their physical attributes in the game, so it's not the same and not as easy to pick apart a defense with a lesser QB.

cuts and pastes another response of mine on this subject from a while back:

I disagree. For example, if you compared Dan Marino's and Jeff George's physical attributes in their respective primes there wouldn't have been much difference. Both had powerful arms and outstanding accuracy. In previous Madden's you could take either one and do pretty well, because the game only took the players physical abililties into account (the gamer supplied the qb's "awareness"). The problem is that it's not realistic, George shouldn't be able to do the things previous Maddens allowed him to do.

This years Madden will be different because it will take into account the thing that made Marino great, his superior situational awareness. Dan's ability to see the entire field was what seperated him from the Jeff George's of the world, not his physical tools. Imo this is the one key trait that all great qb's possess. Previous Madden's essentially gave every qb a Marino-like ability to see everything and take advantage of any opportunity.

Madden 06 will allow the great qb's to continue to operate much as they have in the past. If you are playing as a team with an average to below average qb, the new system will force you to play the game differently. That's exactly as it is in real life, and that's why I'm so excited about vision passing.

[Pared]

Quote: Originally Posted by spectralfan

You've got a pretty good point. Next year, we might see the cone on other ball carriers and you won't be able to juke to avoid someone that the carrier is not looking at.

Now you're all just being silly....

It's a great idea and a great mechanic. If you can't get the hang of it, don't like it, or can't grasp it, GREAT. More power to you.

The point is it makes passing as a QB MORE (keyword there) sim-like than previous years. One gripe with the engine was you could always throw off the back foot and strike someone completely out of nowhere. This addition this year makes "vision" an actual part of the equation. Something that was needed, regardless if you like the cone or not.

[lawbob]

Quote: Originally Posted by RedsFan75

My problem isn't that I don't like the cone. I think it's a great idea. I loved ESPN's passing control last year and this years Madden and Cone are even better than that..... No... My problem is that at 45 yrs of age, my fingers won't keep up with my brain to hit all the buttons in the right order to make those throws before that last second sack... That being said, I don't want to turn off the cone... I want my fingers to move faster... barring that... maybe slow the game speed down so I can keep up.

I am 56 yrs old have no problem with the cone u just have to read the Defense and get rid of the rock before the pocket caves in on u

[mercalnd]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pared

Now you're all just being silly.... It's a great idea and a great mechanic. If you can't get the hang of it, don't like it, or can't grasp it, GREAT. More power to you. The point is it makes passing as a QB MORE (keyword there) sim-like than previous years. One gripe with the engine was you could always throw off the back foot and strike someone completely out of nowhere. This addition this year makes "vision" an actual part of the equation. Something that was needed, regardless if you like the cone or not.

That as indeed sarcasm on my part. I agree that it is more sim-like with the cone. I never contested that and I'm pretty sure that I said in this very thread that if my fingers weren't so inept or if I played the game more than I do now and had time to practice I'd use it. However, I haven't been able to do throw the kinds of passes you keep referring to ever since I switched to All-Pro in 2004. I still maintain that the fact that I JUST DON'T DO THAT means that I'm still playing sim-style football even though I don't use the cone. My only beef is with the claim that people wo don't like the cone are just cheesers who want to throw off the back foot across the field at will. YOU DID NOT HAVE THE CONE LAST YEAR AND I'M PRETTY SURE YOU DIDN'T PLAY CHEESE BALL so why is it that anyone who doesn't use the cone just wants to be able to cheese? Not trying to single you out in particular BTW.