Making excuses...

[bkrich83]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cowboys_Pride

Heh, are you channeling bdoughty?

Not at all, however moderating these forums have enough challenges as it is, having people tell us how to run the forums never goes over well. Every forum is run differently, and there are a lot of forums out there. You have a choice, it's as simple as,if you don't like the way these ones are run, find a forum that suits your tastes.

[dieselboy]

BKgagne with the high heat!!

[CaptainZombie]

Quote: Originally Posted by UNLV_1999

I do believe that the devs listen to the customers. I really think if it was up to them, they would give us more of what we want and give it to us sooner. The problem we have is that there is a conflict here. It is simply a publicly traded company (EA) looking to increase sales each year. I have worked in finance for several publically traded companies and the theme is the same. Increase EPS (earnings per share) each year, make sure the executive team and the board of directors are well taken care of with stock options and bonuses and when it comes time to give raises to everyone else, don't go over 3%. So in my opinon the developers are sort of handcuffed by executive management. The developers, who are the creative minds, are at the mercy of the suits in the big executive suites. The suits know that the best way to increase sales is to market the product each year with added features and such. I don't own the Madden 360, but did play it a little. From what I played of it, it seemed like an OK game, but probably not worth $60 IMO. I know they left out owner mode, retro uniforms, etc. I know it can be argued that they did not have enough time to put all of that in, and that may partly be true. But I really believe they are holding back features and such for future versions. The bottom line is we are dealing with a corporate mentality. I am not saying it is wrong or right, but it is a fact of life. We have some very talented and created people devloping games, but at the end of the day they have to hunker down to the suits in excecutive management.

Not too many developers listen to their fans, but the developers at 2K especially Beluba a designer for NBA2K series has been doing a job well done actually collecting any problems that we all may have had with NBA2K6 XBOX and PS2 versions so those issues could be resolved with the XBOX360 version.

[GTheorenHobbes]

Quote: Originally Posted by UNLV_1999

The problem we have is that there is a conflict here. It is simply a publicly traded company (EA) looking to increase sales each year. I have worked in finance for several publically traded companies and the theme is the same. Increase EPS (earnings per share) each year, make sure the executive team and the board of directors are well taken care of with stock options and bonuses and when it comes time to give raises to everyone else, don't go over 3%.

I agree but, with a billion dollar NFL license to now pay for, I just don't see how EA will be able to see the EPS increases they are going to need. Frankly, I still expect to see a shake up at EA another year or so down the road, once the full financial ramifications of the exclusive licenses begin to hit home.

[ODogg]

I'm not making excuses because I agree Madden should have been better. But with that being said I think this thread is way overly cynical. EA is not the Devil come to steal your cookies. If you don't like their games then don't buy them!

[Illustrator76]

Here's my honest take on the game. As worried as I was about the graphics, my fears were put to rest as soon as I booted this game up. Graphically this game looks amazing (and that really means something coming from me about a Madden game). The player models are well proportioned, very detailed, and just overall slick and realistic looking (although some of the faces are WAY off), and the stadiums are just simply unreal. In my opinion anybody trying to cut down the graphics is simply a Madden ***** that is nitpicking just because they don't like the Madden franchise. The gameplay on the other hand is a totally different story, and HERE is where I think the games appeal starts to fade very quickly. Others have mentioned that they feel "empty" while playing the game, like something is missing but they don't know what it is, I too have this feeling and I think that I know what it is.

First is the game speed, in my opinion the game just plays too fast. You really don't get a chance to use your D-Line moves to get to the quaterback because everything seems like a blur and happens at warp speed. Even when the ball is in the air everything is happening at such a fast pace that you really don't get a chance to interact with the game leaving you with a "disconnected feeling", you're basically just pushing buttons HOPING to make a play. Here is where I just don't understand EA......EVERY other game has a game speed setting, why they refuse to put this into Madden I will never know.......it's just plain stupid and there's no excuse for it. As much as I love NBA 2K6 I would chuck the game out the window if I had to play the game on fast all of the time, it was just too much for me and it made the game so unfun that I couldn't bear it. This is an easy fix in my opinion, and one that should be in the game anyway.

Secondly is the player interaction / animations. We need more animations with the players actually grabbing and interacting with each other (this IS football you know). I rarley, if ever, see "jam" animations, the cornerbacks and recievers "fighting" for the ball, or trying to grab and knock hands off of each other, or LB's in zone coverage trying to re-direct a reciever's route. This is an integral part of the game that can really bring ratings like: strength, route running, coverage, awareness, jumping ability, and speed into play. But there is nothing close to this in Madden 360....instead the recievers run their routes and the cornerbacks either run in front, next to or behind the reciever.....that's it. Then when the ball is thrown, a good cornerback will jump way in front of it and bat it down, and a bad CB will sit there and eat a nice meal before reacting.

The same issues are very prevelent in the tackeling animations. I'm sorry but I just haven't seen many NFL games (and I have seen quite a few) where the tackler just pushes the runner to the ground and he (the tackler) keeps standing. It's just not realistic and it detracts from the emersive feel. What's worse is that one of the most common tackle animations is also one of the most unrealistic in the game. I'm speaking of the swan dive at the runners feet (arms fully extended) and hit the runner and he goes flying about 5 yards in the other direction. This is such an unrealistic animation that I want to puke everytime that I see it. Why can't the tackler wrap up the ball carrier? A good one was the ESPN 2K5 animation where you would swan dive and grab the runners ankles and take him down, it just looked much more realistic and it gave you that "thank God, if I hadn't got that ankle tackle he would have gone to the house" feel, further immersing you into the tension of the game. I can't say these animation issues are an easy fix because EA has yet to get it right yet, but they need to do SOMETHING to bring more realism and interaction to a contact sport.

My third and final thing that I feel gives you an "empty feeling" while playing the game is just it's seeming lack of polish. Nothing in this game feels smooth, everything feels dis-jointed and seems unable to move without hiccupps. Before the snap you will routinely see linebackers slide around the field because they are being pushed by other players that are shifting position. Offensive players who go into motion will speed up and slow down in a very awkward manner, even when the quarterback throws the ball there seems to be an unexplainable stop or delay while he is in his throwing motion. Even things like animations for penalties like holding (like the O-lineman actually pulling the D-lineman down) and clipping (the guy actually being pushed in the back) would really add some polish and completeness to the game. Even better would be to see some of the other main penalties called such as: Defensive holding (A BIG one), Offensive Pass interference, and Illegal lineman downfield. All of these little things add up, and just make the game feel so much more authentic and less static, it also doesn't give you that every game is the same, just with different teams feel.

Even though I have said some negative things about the game, I do believe that EA has the potential to correct these things and give us something special. Before seeing the graphics in Madden 360 I never would have thought that they were capable of putting out anything decent. I am by no means a full blown EA supporter or Fanboy, actually I have had no faith in EA and their practices (as far as recycling games but refreshing the rosters) for a good while. But seeing all of the effort that they have put into the amazing stadiums and player models, I'm hoping that EA has turned the corner. If they can put the same effort into fixing these gameplay / animation issues next year as they did with the graphics this year, then I think that 2K5 and Madden fans alike will be very satisfied, and EA will have a truley special game on their hands.

[KillRoy]

Quote:

Well, to the millions that support EA, the SAME is exactly what they're looking for.

I understand... but I`m always asking myself why people buy the same game over and over and pay full price for it when all they`re getting are a few tweaks and a few new features. IMO.... I think it would be better to see EA release Madden once every 2 years but since EA is making huge profits every year, I don`t see this happening.

Quote:

Can we call this the bane of Madden's existence? One of the things that desperately needs to be fixed.

Well... In order to make QB vision work better, the blocking 'MUST' improve. But I do agree that QB vision is a GREAT feature its just a long ways from being perfected.

Quote:

Well, at least the defense is more representative of the real NFL. Those defenders are fast. Now, maybe it's time to speed the offense up too.

Yeah, while we`re at it, lets just make the game play like NFL FEVER.

Quote:

It's not a simulation of football, it's a video game. I can't think of any sports video that is an exact simulation of the sport it portrays.

True... but I would still say the game could be closer to simulating the sport than what it does right now. ESPN 2k5 is proof that a game can get closer to it. Allthough both game have their arcadey side, I would say the 2k sports team was on the right path when they made 2k5. I never liked the previous 2k games that much but 2k5 totally changed my mind.

Quote:

I don't know, I kind of like it that way.

Madden is a great way to kill some time but I would like to play something a little more realistic.

The funny thing is John Madden himself helps out on this game and it still has that "Madden Arcadey feel" to it. LOL! I think the biggest issue about Madden is really the way the player models interact with the situation on the field. I hear people using the phrase "Mario running" when they talk about Madden on this message board a lot. I assume what they mean by this is the arcadey reaction that players have in this game in relation to their surroundings. The problem is the way the game "FEELS" and not necesarilly the game itself. But its the way they bounce off each other and do all kinds of crazy things that it makes them look like the nintendo character, Mario. The collision detection is another thing that needs to be addressed and 2k5 does a relatively good job of handling this. The next Madden game engine needs to be a little more like 2k5 in this regard.

Quote:

But everything you mentioned are issues that definitely should be addressed in the 360/PS3/Revolution era. "We have the technology. We can rebuild it

Its been a long time since anythings been done to improve some of the glaring issues in this game. I don`t really expect it to change on the upcomming consoles. Hopefully with the PS3 we`ll get a brand new Madden game engine and perhaps it will be better than what we`ve got now.

[baa7]

Quote: Originally Posted by Boilerbuzz

I have another question for you, and don't try to turn this into the standard EA versus VC pissing match: If EA did not buy the exclusive license for the NFL and ESPN, do you think they would have gone this route? On the surface, you can look at Live and say, well, sure... But... We're talking about Madden here. This is the game that built and sustains ALL their other sports titles (effectively).

As I said, I agree with your post. You made some great points, and in particular your comment: “Gameplay. Did this game take a generational step forward in gameplay? Did it take a step backwards? To me, this is CORE question.” No question that whatever Madden 360 is as a football game and product, it’s in no way “next-gen video football”.

As for your question: I don’t think too much about “could have” and “what if”. I look at what is. What is Madden 360? It’s Madden current-gen with a paint job. Personally, I don’t think EA has any interest in changing what Madden is, given it’s “Madden” and “Madden game play” that sells and moves units off the store shelf. I also don’t believe Tiburon has the creative or artistic talent to transform Madden from a “ho-hum” football title into a “great” one, although I suppose part of that might be their hands are tied by the suits upstairs.

Anyway, I would guess if EA still had competition that Madden 360 would look and play just as it does now. The only difference would be they would have included all the different game modes and features. Those they were able to intentionally leave out this year for the purpose of slowly re-introducing them in subsequent versions of the game. And they were able to get away with this because they know people will buy the game regardless. With other games on the market, no way they would have had the leverage to pull that stunt.