WOW....Madden 360 is terrible!

[xrams]

Quote: Originally Posted by mvb34

I agree with u!! I don't know why so many people thought Madden 360 would be loaded !! EA give you a taste with this version I expect lots of good thing with Madden 2007.

Considering our last nites discussion regarding Tice... this statement comes as no surprise....

with all due respect... is there anything that you expect quality from...???

[BrianFifaFan]

This seems the appropriate place for my opus. I agree with the origianl poster on all points. This game is terrible. Why? Because it took too many steps backwards for better graphics/stadiums. The gameplay, which is what everyone so loves about Madden is less in this title, not more. There are any number of canned animations that are triggered in a nonsensical manner, taking control from the gamer and giving it to the coding. I'm not going to go into the modes left out because I'm into football, not fluff. But I do love how the coin toss is before the intros....

Now, to the ways to improve this game. Better player AI. Each player should have expanded behaviors in this generation of games. Tiburon should add tendencies like confidence, primacy, and pressure. A QB's,WR's, RB's should get a boost or knock in ratings based on in game performance, in real time. DB's should get a confidence penalty if Chad J burns their butt. It's nice to have real-time weather but we need real time ratings variability. And LB's and DL's need better stunt/blitz AI. All line battles should be won on strength, speed, and confidence ratings. If Dwight Freeney is across from Jonathan Ogden it's a push. But a rook or a scrub should always lose. QB blind-sided, que injury code

Better penalty AI. Fact is, penalties are a huge part of football. People are not perfect. They get tired, over-matched, distracted. (See Chad Johnson!)
It is part of what makes football, well, football. A lot of runs are broken by holds that either aren't seen or called. Or in the case of Rudi J. the man is a beast after contact. This all needs represented properly. The frustation that the hold that the AI commited is part of the challenge that you, the virtual QB will have to overcome. If your RT is getting man-handled by Michael Strahan then he might resort to holding. His confidence rating is squat, he holds. DB is tired and getting burnt, he commits PI. Simple and fun! Not to mention real!

Presentation. I am actually a fan of the new "on the field" focus. But the execution is garrrrrbage! If you want us to feel that we are there, give is the atmosphere. I've been to a few Bengals games this year (WHO-DEY!) and the feeling is soooo different than TV. You get into it. The beer,nachoes, and loud obnoxious fans. The sidelines are alive with activity. Coaches pacing, skill players on the bench studying, kickers warming up. Hey if Kameo can have 1000 orcs doing 100 different AI routines EA can do better with the sidelines. I do have faith that this will continue to improve next year.

This is just few things that really need fixed. I won't go into the bad tackling AI or Running as this has been beat to death. For the persons who defend this title to the death, this is just a small taste of what needs to be and SHOULD be fixed. Want to use all three cores? There's plenty they could and should be doing. This is far from the NFL experience. More like High School. At $60 a pop. In closing, had it, bored me, traded in on PGR 3. And, yes I played 14 games of it.

[EWRMETS]

Quote: Originally Posted by Briankingsfan

This seems the appropriate place for my opus. I agree with the origianl poster on all points. This game is terrible. Why? Because it took too many steps backwards for better graphics/stadiums. The gameplay, which is what everyone so loves about Madden is less in this title, not more. There are any number of canned animations that are triggered in a nonsensical manner, taking control from the gamer and giving it to the coding. I'm not going to go into the modes left out because I'm into football, not fluff. But I do love how the coin toss is before the intros.... Now, to the ways to improve this game. Better player AI. Each player should have expanded behaviors in this generation of games. Tiburon should add tendencies like confidence, primacy, and pressure. A QB's,WR's, RB's should get a boost or knock in ratings based on in game performance, in real time. DB's should get a confidence penalty if Chad J burns their butt. It's nice to have real-time weather but we need real time ratings variability. And LB's and DL's need better stunt/blitz AI. All line battles should be won on strength, speed, and confidence ratings. If Dwight Freeney is across from Jonathan Ogden it's a push. But a rook or a scrub should always lose. QB blind-sided, que injury code Better penalty AI. Fact is, penalties are a huge part of football. People are not perfect. They get tired, over-matched, distracted. (See Chad Johnson!) It is part of what makes football, well, football. A lot of runs are broken by holds that either aren't seen or called. Or in the case of Rudi J. the man is a beast after contact. This all needs represented properly. The frustation that the hold that the AI commited is part of the challenge that you, the virtual QB will have to overcome. If your RT is getting man-handled by Michael Strahan then he might resort to holding. His confidence rating is squat, he holds. DB is tired and getting burnt, he commits PI. Simple and fun! Not to mention real! Presentation. I am actually a fan of the new "on the field" focus. But the execution is garrrrrbage! If you want us to feel that we are there, give is the atmosphere. I've been to a few Bengals games this year (WHO-DEY!) and the feeling is soooo different than TV. You get into it. The beer,nachoes, and loud obnoxious fans. The sidelines are alive with activity. Coaches pacing, skill players on the bench studying, kickers warming up. Hey if Kameo can have 1000 orcs doing 100 different AI routines EA can do better with the sidelines. I do have faith that this will continue to improve next year. This is just few things that really need fixed. I won't go into the bad tackling AI or Running as this has been beat to death. For the persons who defend this title to the death, this is just a small taste of what needs to be and SHOULD be fixed. Want to use all three cores? There's plenty they could and should be doing. This is far from the NFL experience. More like High School. At $60 a pop. In closing, had it, bored me, traded in on PGR 3. And, yes I played 14 games of it.

This is the best post in this thread because it not only gives suggestions on how the game could be better but doesn't resort to "EA sucks, all they care about money, I want 2k back" which every other post seems to be about.

[xrams]

Quote: Originally Posted by Briankingsfan

This seems the appropriate place for my opus. I agree with the origianl poster on all points. This game is terrible. Why? Because it took too many steps backwards for better graphics/stadiums. The gameplay, which is what everyone so loves about Madden is less in this title, not more. There are any number of canned animations that are triggered in a nonsensical manner, taking control from the gamer and giving it to the coding. I'm not going to go into the modes left out because I'm into football, not fluff. But I do love how the coin toss is before the intros....

This is a great point.... I've heard from EA folk it will get better next yr... it will get better next yr.... that was in 2002... (4gms and $200ago)

Quote: Originally Posted by Briankingsfan

Now, to the ways to improve this game. Better player AI. Each player should have expanded behaviors in this generation of games. Tiburon should add tendencies like confidence, primacy, and pressure. A QB's,WR's, RB's should get a boost or knock in ratings based on in game performance, in real time. DB's should get a confidence penalty if Chad J burns their butt. It's nice to have real-time weather but we need real time ratings variability. And LB's and DL's need better stunt/blitz AI. All line battles should be won on strength, speed, and confidence ratings. If Dwight Freeney is across from Jonathan Ogden it's a push. But a rook or a scrub should always lose. QB blind-sided, que injury code

a similar idea was posted on another forum.... I must say this is IMPRESSIVE..... how great would it be for a publisher to reward its long time customers with these features.... how amazing would the word of mouth be.... if a game were to be released with the above programming....??

Quote: Originally Posted by Briankingsfan

Better penalty AI. Fact is, penalties are a huge part of football. People are not perfect. They get tired, over-matched, distracted. (See Chad Johnson!) It is part of what makes football, well, football. A lot of runs are broken by holds that either aren't seen or called. Or in the case of Rudi J. the man is a beast after contact. This all needs represented properly. The frustation that the hold that the AI commited is part of the challenge that you, the virtual QB will have to overcome. If your RT is getting man-handled by Michael Strahan then he might resort to holding. His confidence rating is squat, he holds. DB is tired and getting burnt, he commits PI. Simple and fun! Not to mention real!

I was in a EB store and some guys were playing madden360.... I asked "isn't it fake not to have red flags for bad calls..??" the one guy said... "man red flags means that the computer made a mistake.." he went on to say " not having the red flag means the AI is making the right call...." I couldn't believe my ears.... Are these the type of ppl that EA is catering too...????

Quote: Originally Posted by Briankingsfan

Presentation. I am actually a fan of the new "on the field" focus. But the execution is garrrrrbage! If you want us to feel that we are there, give is the atmosphere. I've been to a few Bengals games this year (WHO-DEY!) and the feeling is soooo different than TV. You get into it. The beer,nachoes, and loud obnoxious fans. The sidelines are alive with activity. Coaches pacing, skill players on the bench studying, kickers warming up. Hey if Kameo can have 1000 orcs doing 100 different AI routines EA can do better with the sidelines. I do have faith that this will continue to improve next year.

makes you wonder what 2K would have given us...

[BrianFifaFan]

See the guy in the EB is ********. If, big if, EA got the code where the ground meant the ground and the sideline was the sideline, you'd have all kind of challenge possibilities. But that would reqiure deeper physics and collision detection programming. And you could have trapped balls and juggled catches and knees down and fumbles that weren't really fumbles. If you had better physics programming you could have more tipped balls on passes that would lead to turnovers. All of these ifs.

Here's the problem in a nutshell. Most gamers want 70-0 blowouts. They don't actually want the computer to beat them. They get beat down enough in real life and want to win at something for a change. Most Madden gamers don't like to run and play ball control and clock management. They want Peyton to throw for 500 yards and the Edge to run for 500 more. This is fun. But it isn't anywhere near real. The simple fact is that all sports that keep score are about domination, struggle, and imposition of will by one over another. In this day and age, most gamers should be able to expect that the computer AI should present that challenge/struggle. And that, with games now having physics-based fully destructible environments that realistic collisions should be achievable. I don't level these accusations at Madden alone.

I think that Madden is salvagable. But Tiburon better focus on what Next-Gen is all about. Smarter, more "real" games. Not just textures. Come on guys. I should be able to make any player in a skill postion move in a manner which is varied and realistic.(See 2k5's Juke Stick.) And you should have the NPC skill players react accordingly. This adds countless hours of enjoyment. Not to bring up the "other company" but NBA 2k6 is really good about the above mentioned areas. I have seen such a variety of animations that I still say "wow!" This generation is about immersion and variety. I think that Fight Night Rd. 3 is looking to be the first true "next-gen" sports title. No meters, just facial expressions. Madden should have all kinds of facial expressions and gestures. And they should reflect the results of the play on the field. Let the coach get in the face of the player who just got the stupid roughing the passer, let the QB go off on the WR who brain-deaded the wide open TD pass. Let the excuses stop. Come up with the next vision.....

[HussleMan]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

Wait just a minute here. In your mind, what does a football game need to be "extremely solid?" I ask because I have some things in my mind of what it needs and I'm sure that others have some ideas in there mind too of what a game needs to be "extremely solid." I am sure that what we have in our minds may be radically different than what you have in your mind. We may be commensurable on some points, who knows? I'd like to see hear, if you care to share, what elements are required for a football game to be "extremely solid?" Frankly guys what does a football game need to have to be "extremely solid"? I think this is a good question open for discussion.

These discussions generally go nowhere..Some people will like and hate the game...To each his own but I see far more good than bad and do not have any presisposition to hate or love EA...I played all other iterations of 2k, EA and liked and hated elements of both brands...Madden 360 IMO (emphasis on IMO) is a solid game..not perfect by anys stretch but a game that achieves an excellent balance of allowing a user to make plays as opposed to hitting a button and watching the cpu do it all (ala 2k games)..No knock on 2k because I loved that game...But again...IMO Madden 360 is a a great game wth an excellent upside when you consider the improvements that will likely be made.

many of you are content to bich and moan about EA when truth be told starting with the 3rd quarter 2005 games they have been pretty solid (excluding LIVE). I guess I'm not interested in being on that I hate EA bandwaggon" and I want 2k back...I'm a realist that see's and experiences a solid game with a great look, physics and more importantly gameplay. Does collision detection need some serious work???..hell yeah...are their other issues?..hell yeah...But on its face Madden 360 is an extremely solid game if you did not have your sights set too far. next gen is not gonna happen over night. Every facet of the game being rebuilt..No porting features like other companies routinely do...Your gonna have to have patience..But given the observances I have made in this community it appears that more people would rather complain and moan because that often seems to be the status quos..Thats unfortunate.

[BrianFifaFan]

Not to start a disagreement, your last comment is why we complain and moan. The status quo. Have you ever heard the term "bait and switch"? A great many of us get tired of the Ea propaganda only to find that we get to buy something else once the time comes to deliver on the promise. There are a great many of us who are VERY passionate about our games. Are we overboard? Maybe. But that passion is what makes sites like this one more than the fluff that IGN's and Gamespot's boards are. The reviews here are fair honest and accurate. he truth is that this game lacks. And you know what. Even the sites "in EA's pocket" are giving this title grief. Only the Madden fansites are giving it a pass. Hmmmm.......

[HussleMan]

Quote: Originally Posted by Briankingsfan

Not to start a disagreement, your last comment is why we complain and moan. The status quo. Have you ever heard the term "bait and switch"? A great many of us get tired of the Ea propaganda only to find that we get to buy something else once the time comes to deliver on the promise. There are a great many of us who are VERY passionate about our games. Are we overboard? Maybe. But that passion is what makes sites like this one more than the fluff that IGN's and Gamespot's boards are. The reviews here are fair honest and accurate. he truth is that this game lacks. And you know what. Even the sites "in EA's pocket" are giving this title grief. Only the Madden fansites are giving it a pass. Hmmmm.......

Real simple...and I understand your concern..But if your not happy with EA or any other company just don't buy their games...Millions of other people, whether right or wrong, are quite happy with EA and what they do..I'm not saying their perfect or that I am even happy with their product 100% of the time but crying, whining and moaning incessantly about the same thing gets old. I've not posted alot here but looking back at historical posts it seems like the "IN" thing to do is complain about EA..No matter what...Its a common theme.

I own Madden 360 and happen to think that despite all its problems, absent features etc..Its still IMO the best game of football made to date. The future for football is bright as long as EA doe the rightthings in providing a new collision detection engine and clean up a few other things..Then implement the espn style presentation (ala 2k)...That plus rebuilding all of the old features is gonna take time...Simple as that.

I'm not sure many of the people who have all these grand ideas and suggestions/criticisms really know what it takes to develop a game and if by chance they do they should be making their perfect game so I can buy it. I'm not a developer, EA sympathizer or person who knocks any games cause good games that are of good quality, no matter who makes them, is a good thing...Its just kinda funny to see how some people whine and complain no matter what..Then the worst part is half the people complaining don't have a 360 or the game...or if they do they have not spent the time on the game to truly break it down.

If your into franchise mode ans spending warm cozy nights alone with Tony Bruno admiring your franchise stats then this game is likely a let down for you..If it pains you not to have control of setting the hot dog prices in your stdium then this game is not for you. BUT ifyou enjoy solid simulation head 2 head gameplay online or offline and your the type of person to not only play the game but attempt to learn all the subtle nuances of the game then this game is a no brainer to buy..Its really as simple as that.