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Taken from a write up @Mw
This is a discussion on Taken from a write up @Mw within the Madden NFL Old Gen forums.
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08-01-2006, 08:16 AM | #9 |
MVP
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Re: Taken from a write up @Mw
The problem is no gang tackling greatly influences gameplay. How many times have you had a rb stopped at the line only to have his momentum push him forward another 3 yards for the first, all the while you linebackers are bouncing off him to the ground because the rb was already engaged with another linebacker of d lineman. I get tired of it, and i want it fixed. Gang tackling should be as big as any other part of the game, as it is in real life.
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08-01-2006, 08:23 AM | #10 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Re: Taken from a write up @Mw
You're going to be seeing a lot of "Best football game ever?" threads and posts this coming Sept., but without such a vital aspect to a football game, that's going to be hard to justify. |
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08-01-2006, 08:54 AM | #11 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
The Man!
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Re: Taken from a write up @Mw
Pile-on tackling occurs in the LARGE majority of plays in the NFL, so if a video game doesn't have it, it can hardly be justifiable to begin calling it the best ever. But those threads will certainly exist. |
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08-01-2006, 10:07 AM | #12 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
MVP
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Re: Taken from a write up @Mw
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08-01-2006, 10:41 AM | #13 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
MVP
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Re: Taken from a write up @Mw
Speaking of Maddennation though, in reading their many impressions of 07 there was a comment stating that the developers are very aware of the hoopla over gang tackling and it is something they are working on for future editions. And 2008 was mentioned. I'll believe it when I see it, but at least our complaints aren't falling on deaf ears. |
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08-01-2006, 10:46 AM | #14 |
MVP
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Re: Taken from a write up @Mw
Come on, of course only the graphics engine was rebuilt. Does everyone not remember 06 360 having the same run/pass glitch the 06 PS2/Xbox versions had? They just "happened" to reprogram the same bug?
Lets say EA actually did rewrite the whole game. Does it matter when they rewrote it exactly the same as the last one? I'm talking from a technical standpoint here. What did EA add to the game's core mechanics that the PSX couldn't handle? Update the shader technology, enhance the lighting, redo all textures and models, and plug them into an engine that is more or less the same technologically advanced product as before. It's quicker, cheaper and easier than starting from scratch. When you don't have competition breathing down your neck, staying ahead of the pack isn't a factor so why waste the money? A wise man might say it's a good idea for future proofing your work so it won't require redoing sooner than needed, but wisdom is a hard thing to sell to investors. Want to see what a real next gen engine looks like? Check out the Star Wars/Indiana Jones Next Gen stuff with LucasArts's "DMM" technology. It's arguably fluff in a sense but there's no doubt it's stunning technology. I'm not sure if any real time video is publically available for DMM yet but trust me, when it is, everyone will understand what next gen engines really are. Can EA update their engine to change something as fundamental as its core animation system? One would hope the engine was designed so plugging in entirely new technologies is not hard to do - i'm no game coder but any engine I make to last 10 years these days would want to have a very easy way to drastically change modules easily. The problem is, real world physics effectively replaces motion captured animations in many circumstances, which I can't see EA giving up. Given their reluctance to sit on the edge of technology in the past and present, isn't that a pretty tall order? I can see perhaps an attempt to address this in the future but the gaming world around EA will quickly surpass them entirely. They'll introduce a level of ragdoll similar to that seen in Rainbow Six 3 while some geek will make a freeware mod for Quake5 that changes the view to 3rd person, programs the AI to play a game of football on a level designed like a stadium and it will surpass Madden's technical achievements. Last edited by Nza; 08-01-2006 at 11:00 AM. |
08-01-2006, 12:04 PM | #15 |
Banned
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Re: Taken from a write up @Mw
Hi guys -
I am the author of the original piece being quoted in this discussion and I think it is only fair to expand on my original premise with some missing information. 1) EA's producers were asked, point blank by me, whether or not Natural Motion's Euphoria engine middleware (which enables gang tackling not based on animations but on the physics of the character models and looks to be one of the most exciting developments in "next-gen gaming" - alongside DMM) would be considered for use in the Madden series. Their response was very interesting to me, and perhaps one of the most underplayed events that came out of the Community Day last week. I believe that the developers and producers are very desirous of using the technology for the Madden series, but there is an undefined issue (licensing fees? money? corporate hubris or pride at EA? coding issues with the game engine? - basically it was a feeling and not a specified reason per say. It seemed that the producers were very aware of this technology, and very interested in answering questions about it, but they were told they could NOT answer anything that may relate to licensing...so take that for what its worth.) which is preventing its use in the immediate (ie. 2007 version) future of the game. However, the interesting quote was directly from David Ortiz (lead producer of Madden Next-Gen) who dropped this little bombshell: "PS3 will have gang tackling in its version of Madden 2007." I was not sure I heard him correctly, but he went on to add that gang-tackling would also be in future versions of the 360 build as well. He further stated that the extra development time - between now and the launch of the PS3 in November - is giving the developers a chance to add some things (gang tackling?) to the PS3 build that were planned for the 360-build but cut due to time limitations. Is this gospel truth - that PS3 WILL have gang tackling? I don't know if I would go that far. This was said during a discussion about the future of collision detection and animations for the future games and it MAY be out of context. (NOTE: I DID NOT specifically corner Mr. Ortiz and ask him directly - "do you confirm that gang tackling is 100% IN the PS3 version?") So if the game releases in November, and gang tackling is for some reason NOT in the 2007 release (remember, by many accounts programming for the PS3 is very difficult at first and may eat up more time than developers are anticiapting - leading to many games with cut feature sets), don't be completely shocked; however, the fact that he would even allude to its inclusion leads me to believe that 2007 may be the LAST iteration of the Madden series to NOT feature some version of gang tackling and multiple player collision detections. 2) The sentiment that the 360 engine was NOT rebuilt from the ground up is somewhat unfair. Many player animations and certain player motions have certainly been recoded to the 360 from the current-gen engine to be sure, but the most significant change to the engine is starting to be utilized now, beginning with the 2007 games (NCAA and Madden) - that is this = more player attributes and ratings that result in much greater segregation of one player or player type from another. It is most apparent in the RBs this year - with individual animations make them stand out more from the crowd than ever before, but this mechanic is extended to the rest of the gameplay as well. Examples? The contextually based animations of the "highlight stick" is certainly one area - yes, it DOES also appear in the current-gen, but the degrees of subtlety between when does a certain back do "a" animation instead of "b" animation can be much more refined on the next-gen systems due to the presence of these added ratings. It is also true on defense with the new ratings that differentiate between a standout man-to-man cover CB and one who is easily exposed in man-to-man but may excel in zone coverage. This level of subtle enhancements to gameplay and differentiation between one player and another is a whole new level of depth in the world of video fottball games. Is it stunningly perfect? Of course, not....nothing new ever really is. Is it a huge step in the right direction? I think that is an absolute yes. What does all of this boil down to? In my experience it was a very fun to play football game down at EA-Tiburon last week. My first impression was "this is better than NCAA". Why is that important? Because as I have gotten more time with the NCAA build at home (especially playing it on the Heisman difficulty setting and against other sim-style players online) I have really come to enjoy that game more than any other in the past, teh depth of the gameplay is really a plus to me - there are many subtle differences between players that begin to be more obvious over time and it adds to the gameplay for me. I realize and appreciate that not everyone agrees with those sentiments; but to me personally, that does not matter a bit. I have fun with the game and that is why I buy it. Since I love NCAA; and personally felt Madden 2007 was a more polished, more refined and in general better game, I am very excited about the release in 3 weeks, as well as the general direction of the gameplay, the next-gen engine and the future of the Madden franchise. Of course, that is always subject to change as initial impressions can often be very wrong upon further review.... Last edited by Moostache; 08-01-2006 at 12:07 PM. |
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08-01-2006, 12:09 PM | #16 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
MVP
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Re: Taken from a write up @Mw
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