Isn't it amazing what competition will do?

[CM Hooe]

Here's my take, for what it's worth:

Two points: foremost, the original poster states that American football is the most physics-driven sport in the world. Would it not be plausable then, that a football physics engine would take the longest amount of time to correctly implement?

Second, even if EA could, I doubt they would simply rest on their laurels and just put out a blatant rehash of a game. If nothing else, the programming team of Madden has their own personal pride at stake and wants to make the best game possible; the guys under the hood aren't looking at things from a dollars standpoint, this is their product, and they (at least if my thinking is right) want to make it as good as possible.

I do think that competition spurs on innovation and change, as evidenced in the reported changes to NBA Live and FIFA this year on the next-generation consoles. However, I don't think the lack of competition will completely kill it either.

I'm not trying to intentionally take a pro-EA stance (I don't own next-gen Madden, much less an XBOX 360), but I'm just trying to present a different perspective.

[bkrich83]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

I'm not kidding myself. I was one of those that kinda knew what I'd be getting when I made the midnight purchase but got it anyway. The game hasn't been touched in three weeks. So I know that "need" to have the game or see for myself what the game is about isn't there. Now this is congnizant on the amount of data they give prior to the game's release. If the info is just as meh or disappointing next year as it was this Jul/Aug, then I'm pretty sure I won't allow myself to get caught up in the hype of having a new football game and just run out and purchase it even though my gut is telling me not to. It used to be Madden would have legs going into late October/November before people would begin to tire of it; now people are tiring of it after only a few weeks if not completely disappointed from the start. I'm sure the game will sell well; not saying that it won't. Just saying that I think more people will be willing to have EA/Tiburon prove the game's worth rather than just running out and buying it on it's reputation. If they pull a NBA Live where they show NO information, I won't have the slightest desire in the world to run out and get it. Not saying everyone feels that way, just saying that I think some hardcore players will be more discriminating with making the purchase

So it's based on your feelings for the game?

Madden will sell no matter what. Name recognition goes an awful long way, it always has for Madden. Factor it's the only game in town, and gamers like we have here are the minority not the majority, not even close. Hardcore gamers, make up a very slim, slim piece of the Madden game buying public.

If you think Madden sales are somehow going to suddenly drop, you're delusional. EA didn't get to be where they are with this franchise by being stupid.

It's sad, but it's the way it is.

[DaveDQ]

Before EA does anything with physics, they need to get this game running at 60fps. It is a shame that this title is so choppy and bulky.

Sure, the EA/Madden name goes a long way, but in light of what we all saw this week from X06, games are now entering into the "next-gen" phase. It's no longer hype, it's a reality. Look at some of what Microsoft Game Studios is doing. These developers are making Madden developers look like yesterday's news.

EA doesn't own everything, and we will begin to see sports titles outside of Madden that will make many wonder why Madden isn't doing such things.

Electronic Arts has invested in the exclusive license. They believe exclusivity is what's key right now. Quite frankly, they are betting that consumers are dumb enough to "judge a book by its cover," and for the most part, they are right. Their sales prove that.

I'm bored with Madden. In fact, if it weren't for the league I'm involved with, it would be traded in by now. That's sad, very sad.

[Nza]

Quote: Originally Posted by Angel_Fan

I think that I saw a video a little back with one of the madden producers talking how they have the ability to communicate with the other EA producers who produce the other sports games about implementing a certain feature, and possibly certain animations from one another. Frankly I think that this is good news, because if one EA game is going to do something like this, don't you think that it could spread to the other games as well?

That could happen yes, but what EA were actually refering to was their database of animations. This technology more or less disposes of pre-made animations altogether. The real question is, is the "new" Madden engine too far in to make such a fundamental change?

[Nza]

Quote: Originally Posted by Krioniq

Here's my take, for what it's worth: Two points: foremost, the original poster states that American football is the most physics-driven sport in the world. Would it not be plausable then, that a football physics engine would take the longest amount of time to correctly implement?

I don't see that being the case, no. A physics engine is a physics engine. When you give an entity properties of a human body, the engine should treat it as such. It doesn't matter if there are 2 bodies or 200, it should be more or less the same thing difficulty wise (without considering hardware power of course). I don't think FIFA having less human to human interaction but the same amount of bodies on the field makes it any easier to produce. Also keep in mind Madden 360 has 2 years under its belt now.

As someone stated above, however, EA can't even get 60fps with Madden as it is now with an animation system pre-dating the year 2000. I think there is a very real possibility they simply are not skilled enough to get real physics in an NFL game optimized enough to run smooth, or maybe the 360 just isn't as powerful as it is made out to be. Physics processing is NOT a strong point of these "next gen" consoles, which could be a major flaw given that real time physics is clearly the next big leap in gaming of all genres.

Quote:

Second, even if EA could, I doubt they would simply rest on their laurels and just put out a blatant rehash of a game. If nothing else, the programming team of Madden has their own personal pride at stake and wants to make the best game possible; the guys under the hood aren't looking at things from a dollars standpoint, this is their product, and they (at least if my thinking is right) want to make it as good as possible. I do think that competition spurs on innovation and change, as evidenced in the reported changes to NBA Live and FIFA this year on the next-generation consoles. However, I don't think the lack of competition will completely kill it either. I'm not trying to intentionally take a pro-EA stance (I don't own next-gen Madden, much less an XBOX 360), but I'm just trying to present a different perspective.

Programmers program what they are told to program. They are grunt workers. Producers are in bed with upper management, who see this as a dollar business, which it is. Some development houses - idSoftware, Blizzard, etc - are far less rigid in this regard but that's because they're selling fantasy usually, so they have to think outside the box. Couple that with the fact they typically get more than 12 months to make a game with a set deadline. This basically forces EA to focus on features they feel will best sell the next version - gimmicks. This is why stuff like double team blocks, gang tackling, extensive gameplanning etc never seems to make the cut, because each year they need front cover features to sell the game to the market they have created.

Programmers are probably just like us. They'd probably love to see the stuff we want, but that's not their decision to make. My stance is, EA should hire enough programmers so that they can cover both bases, particularly considering how much money Madden makes them. But that's not going to happen without competition - as I said, bare minimal = maximum profit, if you define 'minimal' as 'the least amount needed to be done to sell', which isn't very much for the typical Madden buyer.

[Vince]

I know it's hard to compare sports, but NBA Live, NHL 07 and by the looks of it, Fifa 07 all look to be better and have more innovations than Madden 07. Why is this?

[LIGHTNING]

Quote: Originally Posted by bkrich83

So it's based on your feelings for the game? Madden will sell no matter what. Name recognition goes an awful long way, it always has for Madden. Factor it's the only game in town, and gamers like we have here are the minority not the majority, not even close. Hardcore gamers, make up a very slim, slim piece of the Madden game buying public. If you think Madden sales are somehow going to suddenly drop, you're delusional. EA didn't get to be where they are with this franchise by being stupid. It's sad, but it's the way it is.

Trees do not grow to the sky. People were saying in 1999 that the stock market would continue to go up indefinitly and today it is lower than the all time highs in 2000 and may not make new highs until well after 2015. It is easy to have expectations that the trends of the past will continue forever but that is not reality. Everything has a life and someday probably in the not too distant future Madden sales will peak and come down.

[jfsolo]

Quote:

Programmers program what they are told to program. They are grunt workers. Producers are in bed with upper management, who see this as a dollar business, which it is. Some development houses - idSoftware, Blizzard, etc - are far less rigid in this regard but that's because they're selling fantasy usually, so they have to think outside the box. Couple that with the fact they typically get more than 12 months to make a game with a set deadline. This basically forces EA to focus on features they feel will best sell the next version - gimmicks. This is why stuff like double team blocks, gang tackling, extensive gameplanning etc never seems to make the cut, because each year they need front cover features to sell the game to the market they have created. Programmers are probably just like us. They'd probably love to see the stuff we want, but that's not their decision to make. My stance is, EA should hire enough programmers so that they can cover both bases, particularly considering how much money Madden makes them. But that's not going to happen without competition - as I said, bare minimal = maximum profit, if you define 'minimal' as 'the least amount needed to be done to sell', which isn't very much for the typical Madden buyer.

Game, Set, and Match. Does anything else need to be said besides this? Once consoles took off and EA realized around 1993 that they could put out a annual version of their sports games with just a few improvements, and still have millions rush out to buy it without the slightest hesitation, well then that slowed consideralbly the evolution of their sports titles into more realistic simulations of those sports.