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Crimsontide27 · 10-12-2006, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeeDogg


	madden 04 was the last madden I purchased, I have played them every year but havent bought them. I bought NCAA360 itching for next gen. and realised that i wouldnt buy another EA football until they made the advances to bring the game to current times. that being said, EA's madden sales soar every year. Madden 06 360 sold well !!!!.........madden 06 360........sold well............ If the hardcore gamer waits till the masses stop buying madden, in order to get EA's attention it will be a long wait, its not gonna happen. Im not saying this will definatly work, I have my doubts. The question is , In light of the current trends in the media right now, is this an opportunity to shine light on our issues with the EA's suits. and could the trend of agressive media treatment towards EA (who are usualy flattering to them)trigger a response. I think we all agree that impacting sales would yield the best results.

Edit: I play MMOs as well. The hardcore vs casual debate comes up all the time. The hardcores think they are owed something because they spend more time and resources in the games.

I dont know if anyone here is familiar with World of Warcraft or the Everquest series, but this is a good example. The hardcores from EQ complain about WoWs difficulty, lack of end game progression, weak raids etc and want Blizzard to cater to them. They want WoW to be more like Everquest. However at Everquests peak years, it had 500k subscribers or pretty close to it. WoW on the other hand is well over 6-7+ millions subscribers.

The hardcores post on their guild websites if such and such isnt fixed they will quit blah blah. Point is that if every hardcore player in MMOs quit WoW, it wouldnt be a dent in the bucket. Yet they want Blizzard to make the game more like they want, as opposed to how the other 6 million do.

Same analogy is true with Madden. If every hardcore player didnt buy Madden, it wouldnt make much of an impact on EAs bottom line.
See. I think differently. There is alot of talk of " hardcore" this, or "casual" that.

You made the comment that if the hardcore waits till the masses stop buying madden, then it will be a long wait. However it IS the hardcore buying madden year in and year out. The casual fans dont line up at midnight around the country to buy sports games, its the hardcores. Its also the hardcores that are able to compare and contrast each title based of the last 5 years etc.

Each year people come here and complain about madden. Besides the people that troll behind them calling them 2k fanboys etc, there are many valid complaints , yet the hardcores keep buying them.

People keep referencing the NBA Live lashout and its letter. Its the hardcores and not the casuals that have a problem with it, yet the hardcores keep buying it. Its the hardcores that wrote the letter, not the "casuals". Its the "hardcores" that signed the letter, not the casual fans. Its the "hardcores" that admitted to buying the product knowing full well that the product was flawed. I have no sympathy. If do a little research into the letter you will find comments about "their loyal fans keep buying the game, knowing it is full of flaws etc " Its the so called hardcores that kept that NBA live community forum going, its the hardcores that complain year in and year out...its the so called hardcores that keep buying the damn product too.

Bottom line is that until you see sales dropping instead of increasing, there is no reason whatsoever they should change their business strategy.

TeeDogg · 10-12-2006, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crimsontide27


	Edit: I play MMOs as well. The hardcore vs casual debate comes up all the time. The hardcores think they are owed something because they spend more time and resources in the games. I dont know if anyone here is familiar with World of Warcraft or the Everquest series, but this is a good example. The hardcores from EQ complain about WoWs difficulty, lack of end game progression, weak raids etc and want Blizzard to cater to them. They want WoW to be more like Everquest. However at Everquests peak years, it had 500k subscribers or pretty close to it. WoW on the other hand is well over 6-7+ millions subscribers. The hardcores post on their guild websites if such and such isnt fixed they will quit blah blah. Point is that if every hardcore player in MMOs quit WoW, it wouldnt be a dent in the bucket. Yet they want Blizzard to make the game more like they want, as opposed to how the other 6 million do. Same analogy is true with Madden. If every hardcore player didnt buy Madden, it wouldnt make much of an impact on EAs bottom line. See. I think differently. There is alot of talk of " hardcore" this, or "casual" that. You made the comment that if the hardcore waits till the masses stop buying madden, then it will be a long wait. However it IS the hardcore buying madden year in and year out. The casual fans dont line up at midnight around the country to buy sports games, its the hardcores. Its also the hardcores that are able to compare and contrast each title based of the last 5 years etc. Each year people come here and complain about madden. Besides the people that troll behind them calling them 2k fanboys etc, there are many valid complaints , yet the hardcores keep buying them. People keep referencing the NBA Live lashout and its letter. Its the hardcores and not the casuals that have a problem with it, yet the hardcores keep buying it. Its the hardcores that wrote the letter, not the "casuals". Its the "hardcores" that signed the letter, not the casual fans. Its the "hardcores" that admitted to buying the product knowing full well that the product was flawed. I have no sympathy. If do a little research into the letter you will find comments about "their loyal fans keep buying the game, knowing it is full of flaws etc " Its the so called hardcores that kept that NBA live community forum going, its the hardcores that complain year in and year out...its the so called hardcores that keep buying the damn product too. Bottom line is that until you see sales dropping instead of increasing, there is no reason whatsoever they should change their business strategy.

good points, I agree. I should have said "the hardore that want change" vs "those that will buy it it regaurdless.
your points are taken

Brassman · 10-12-2006, 09:24 AM

Guys,

I think we are all living in our own little delusional worlds. We think we are back in the "good old days" when EA's founding father Trip Hawkins met personally with John Madden to design the game. As I remember Trip met Madden on a train to proposed his desire to do a ground breaking football game. Madden agreed to add his name to the project but only if it was to be an authentic portrayal of football. That first madden for PC & Commodore computers, before the game console craze, was one of a kind. I still have the little playbooks that came with that game. Awesome stuff. Back then, when the Companys founder was usually the lead designer, we had some truely great sports games. I'm sure we all felt that based on these early versions of Madden Football & Earl Weaver Baseball we would be in sports heaven by now. Ball physics, player match ups, real football and baseball termonology and real life tactics where what these games where all about. They where designed to make us feel part of the experience and by mirroring real game tactics they made us all better fans. Unfortunately, we have not seen that find of dedication to realism since the consoles took over. Now it's all about flashy graphics and selling 360's, PS3 and Wii's. My sons have a XBOX 360 and sorry, it still can't touch my 3 yr old PC. Read through every wish list on the internet. No one is asking to see the sweat drops on McNabbs nose. Instead we are pleading for gang tackles, realistic line play, accurate rosters & ratings, realistic stats from simmed games, a better playbook designer and the ability to run realistic franchises with working IR's, expander preseason rosters, etc. etc. On and on, no real issues with graphics but what do we get from EA Sports. Better graphics, fewer options and less realism. Funny, Front Office Football, Out of the Park Baseball and Football Manager have outstanding sim stats and fantastic franchise options. NFL2K5 had gang tackles, great presentation, game highlights and even practice schedules. Even the old games like Front Page Football had great play designers. Microprose Ultimate Football '95 even had blocking schemes. EA had their chance to take the next step when they distributed Front Office Football. They chose flash over substance. It's now all about flash. Flash sells, stats and fumbled snaps don't. Why doesn't EA develope games on and for the PC anymore. It's not because the designers can't or the programmers don't know how. They do. I'd say it's because almost everyone has a PC now of days. But we don't all have 360's, PS3's or Wii's. It's no longer about the game. It's about selling us on the need to buy the latest hardware. $$$$$$$ Bottom line is we can complain all we want. We can choose to buy or not buy Madden. EA no longer cares if we do or don't because no one running the show has any personal connection with the game. If we don't buy Madden they drop it like a hot potato and put their money into something that will sell. They make money, not football games. If we truely want the innovative games we desire they wont come from EA sports. We need to encourage and support the little developers, the entrepreneur's, who still have a passion for their creations.

FORMULA316 · 10-12-2006, 10:43 AM

Have you ever had the feeling that EA Sports was Pure Evil, the Devil Incarnate, Beelzebub? Have you ever been chatting with your fiancé at Starbucks only to think to yourself when exactly does EA's exclusive NFL testicular stranglehold end? If so, you're one of the 50,000 or so registered users to community gaming forums or about 0.025% of overall Madden "buyers". Actually we could likely divide 50,000 users in half chalking that up to people with more than one registered user name. Google "NBA Live Bad Publicity" – how big is the "our gaming voice" really? Maybe if we interviewed disgruntled Madden Programmers toiling over 90-hour work weeks in the EA Sweatshops we would find the CNN newsworthy EA Smoking Gun – the Holy Grail of Madden Truth? With all the calls to customer service and tech support we have made, have we not found one angry EA employee?

Two years into the exclusive licensing agreement between Electronic Arts and the NFL, Madden is the only game in town with the sole rights to the players, teams and stadiums in videogames. EA has wiped out the competition and we the videogame buyers "buy" the game each year in droves. We demand authenticity so having the names and likeliness of our favourite players in the game is paramount. How many of the overall gaming public would actually buy a generic football game today with no NFL license? Before you keystroke "I would", tell me how many copies of Cabela's Alaskan Adventures are on the shelf at your local videogame store right now? I loved Accolade's 4th and Inches on the Commodore 64 but nothing would sell en masse with little to no availability on the shelves. You're hard pressed to find an easily available copy of Blitz: The League.

If Operation Sports (members) submits a letter or some sort of "Madden Strategy", good, good luck and best wishes however we have already deemed the Madden Franchise a Winner this year with Our Wallets. Buyers will do it again next year. The overabundance of videogame sequels and rehashes are an indicator of this reality and "Madden Buyers" are arguably the biggest sequel-whores of them all.

In the end what will this letter do? Will EA push a new idea for Madden 2008 or take the easy road by squeezing out a sequel? You don't think that EA's familiar formulaic videogame process is already underway? Regardless of the letter's intent, to improve Madden or to boycott EA games altogether, when Madden 2008 hits the shelf (or the preorder) consider that since no competition is forcing EA to try anything innovative, the new version might not be all that different from the game you already own. Ask yourself what was the last good original game I played? If you buy another Madden, are you expecting the "Halo" of football games?

FORMULA316 · 10-12-2006, 10:45 AM

Hey Graphik, from our locked discussion…

I want an alternative football videogame. I want alternative soccer game but right now EA is set to release it’s 3rd 360 soccer game before Konami’s Winning Eleven hits the stores.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graphik


	I honestly think that Madden will lose sells next year and it will finnally serve as a wake up call to EA to do something to improve the game."

What has led you to this?

Barring any severe PS3 rollout glitches or serious lack of supply, Madden will sell a ton of PS3 versions this Christmas and into the football months of January/February 2007.

retrohelix · 10-12-2006, 01:31 PM

How about Ea adding some real defensive, and offensive line schemes, dt blocks, and being able top assign defenders to specific gaps on the field etc

TeeDogg · 10-13-2006, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FORMULA316


	Have you ever had the feeling that EA Sports was Pure Evil, the Devil Incarnate, Beelzebub? Have you ever been chatting with your fiancé at Starbucks only to think to yourself when exactly does EA's exclusive NFL testicular stranglehold end? If so, you're one of the 50,000 or so registered users to community gaming forums or about 0.025% of overall Madden "buyers". Actually we could likely divide 50,000 users in half chalking that up to people with more than one registered user name. Google "NBA Live Bad Publicity" – how big is the "our gaming voice" really? Maybe if we interviewed disgruntled Madden Programmers toiling over 90-hour work weeks in the EA Sweatshops we would find the CNN newsworthy EA Smoking Gun – the Holy Grail of Madden Truth? With all the calls to customer service and tech support we have made, have we not found one angry EA employee? Two years into the exclusive licensing agreement between Electronic Arts and the NFL, Madden is the only game in town with the sole rights to the players, teams and stadiums in videogames. EA has wiped out the competition and we the videogame buyers "buy" the game each year in droves. We demand authenticity so having the names and likeliness of our favourite players in the game is paramount. How many of the overall gaming public would actually buy a generic football game today with no NFL license? Before you keystroke "I would", tell me how many copies of Cabela's Alaskan Adventures are on the shelf at your local videogame store right now? I loved Accolade's 4th and Inches on the Commodore 64 but nothing would sell en masse with little to no availability on the shelves. You're hard pressed to find an easily available copy of Blitz: The League. If Operation Sports (members) submits a letter or some sort of "Madden Strategy", good, good luck and best wishes however we have already deemed the Madden Franchise a Winner this year with Our Wallets. Buyers will do it again next year. The overabundance of videogame sequels and rehashes are an indicator of this reality and "Madden Buyers" are arguably the biggest sequel-whores of them all. In the end what will this letter do? Will EA push a new idea for Madden 2008 or take the easy road by squeezing out a sequel? You don't think that EA's familiar formulaic videogame process is already underway? Regardless of the letter's intent, to improve Madden or to boycott EA games altogether, when Madden 2008 hits the shelf (or the preorder) consider that since no competition is forcing EA to try anything innovative, the new version might not be all that different from the game you already own. Ask yourself what was the last good original game I played? If you buy another Madden, are you expecting the "Halo" of football games?

LOL.......... 4th & inches on the C64...LOL...my buddies and I actualy created rosters for that game and played a season keeping stats in a notebook... we had one friend who wasnt into it so he didnt create a team and rolled with the "accolads"..LOL....I'd forgoten that till i read your post.

flgataz108 · 10-13-2006, 02:49 AM

lots of good points in here. however, unfortunately, the good points are mostly bad news.

good example of what a lot of you are saying..

i'm playing basketball with a bunch of guys i don't know at a rec center and madden gets brought up.

Dude: Madden is so sick for the 360. The graphics are just nuts. And you play that superstar mode? you get to be your own player. it's the s###.

Me: are you serious? doesn't (insert entire Bugs/glitches thread here).. bother you at all?

Dude: whoa dude. you needa get a life. it's only a video game.(All others nod in agreement)

This pretty much sums up how 99 percent of the people who buy madden feel about the game. they are happy with it the way it is, and the graphical upgrade on the 360 is "next gen" enough for them.

Basically, the game isn't going to get overhauled to the dream game i think some of us are picturing, but a letter that included all the things that we want specifically improved, opposed to general complaining about they're business philosophy. we might as wel try and bring down capitalism.

10-12-2006, 09:24 AM	#43
Brassman Rookie OVR: 4 Join Date: Jan 2003	Re: Official OS letter to EA Guys, I think we are all living in our own little delusional worlds. We think we are back in the "good old days" when EA's founding father Trip Hawkins met personally with John Madden to design the game. As I remember Trip met Madden on a train to proposed his desire to do a ground breaking football game. Madden agreed to add his name to the project but only if it was to be an authentic portrayal of football. That first madden for PC & Commodore computers, before the game console craze, was one of a kind. I still have the little playbooks that came with that game. Awesome stuff. Back then, when the Companys founder was usually the lead designer, we had some truely great sports games. I'm sure we all felt that based on these early versions of Madden Football & Earl Weaver Baseball we would be in sports heaven by now. Ball physics, player match ups, real football and baseball termonology and real life tactics where what these games where all about. They where designed to make us feel part of the experience and by mirroring real game tactics they made us all better fans. Unfortunately, we have not seen that find of dedication to realism since the consoles took over. Now it's all about flashy graphics and selling 360's, PS3 and Wii's. My sons have a XBOX 360 and sorry, it still can't touch my 3 yr old PC. Read through every wish list on the internet. No one is asking to see the sweat drops on McNabbs nose. Instead we are pleading for gang tackles, realistic line play, accurate rosters & ratings, realistic stats from simmed games, a better playbook designer and the ability to run realistic franchises with working IR's, expander preseason rosters, etc. etc. On and on, no real issues with graphics but what do we get from EA Sports. Better graphics, fewer options and less realism. Funny, Front Office Football, Out of the Park Baseball and Football Manager have outstanding sim stats and fantastic franchise options. NFL2K5 had gang tackles, great presentation, game highlights and even practice schedules. Even the old games like Front Page Football had great play designers. Microprose Ultimate Football '95 even had blocking schemes. EA had their chance to take the next step when they distributed Front Office Football. They chose flash over substance. It's now all about flash. Flash sells, stats and fumbled snaps don't. Why doesn't EA develope games on and for the PC anymore. It's not because the designers can't or the programmers don't know how. They do. I'd say it's because almost everyone has a PC now of days. But we don't all have 360's, PS3's or Wii's. It's no longer about the game. It's about selling us on the need to buy the latest hardware. $$$$$$$ Bottom line is we can complain all we want. We can choose to buy or not buy Madden. EA no longer cares if we do or don't because no one running the show has any personal connection with the game. If we don't buy Madden they drop it like a hot potato and put their money into something that will sell. They make money, not football games. If we truely want the innovative games we desire they wont come from EA sports. We need to encourage and support the little developers, the entrepreneur's, who still have a passion for their creations.

10-12-2006, 10:43 AM	#44
FORMULA316 Pro OVR: 14 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: bur-ling-ton Blog Entries: 3	Re: Official OS letter to EA Have you ever had the feeling that EA Sports was Pure Evil, the Devil Incarnate, Beelzebub? Have you ever been chatting with your fiancé at Starbucks only to think to yourself when exactly does EA's exclusive NFL testicular stranglehold end? If so, you're one of the 50,000 or so registered users to community gaming forums or about 0.025% of overall Madden "buyers". Actually we could likely divide 50,000 users in half chalking that up to people with more than one registered user name. Google "NBA Live Bad Publicity" – how big is the "our gaming voice" really? Maybe if we interviewed disgruntled Madden Programmers toiling over 90-hour work weeks in the EA Sweatshops we would find the CNN newsworthy EA Smoking Gun – the Holy Grail of Madden Truth? With all the calls to customer service and tech support we have made, have we not found one angry EA employee? Two years into the exclusive licensing agreement between Electronic Arts and the NFL, Madden is the only game in town with the sole rights to the players, teams and stadiums in videogames. EA has wiped out the competition and we the videogame buyers "buy" the game each year in droves. We demand authenticity so having the names and likeliness of our favourite players in the game is paramount. How many of the overall gaming public would actually buy a generic football game today with no NFL license? Before you keystroke "I would", tell me how many copies of Cabela's Alaskan Adventures are on the shelf at your local videogame store right now? I loved Accolade's 4th and Inches on the Commodore 64 but nothing would sell en masse with little to no availability on the shelves. You're hard pressed to find an easily available copy of Blitz: The League. If Operation Sports (members) submits a letter or some sort of "Madden Strategy", good, good luck and best wishes however we have already deemed the Madden Franchise a Winner this year with Our Wallets. Buyers will do it again next year. The overabundance of videogame sequels and rehashes are an indicator of this reality and "Madden Buyers" are arguably the biggest sequel-whores of them all. In the end what will this letter do? Will EA push a new idea for Madden 2008 or take the easy road by squeezing out a sequel? You don't think that EA's familiar formulaic videogame process is already underway? Regardless of the letter's intent, to improve Madden or to boycott EA games altogether, when Madden 2008 hits the shelf (or the preorder) consider that since no competition is forcing EA to try anything innovative, the new version might not be all that different from the game you already own. Ask yourself what was the last good original game I played? If you buy another Madden, are you expecting the "Halo" of football games?

10-12-2006, 01:31 PM	#46
retrohelix Rookie OVR: 7 Join Date: Feb 2003	Re: Official OS letter to EA How about Ea adding some real defensive, and offensive line schemes, dt blocks, and being able top assign defenders to specific gaps on the field etc

10-13-2006, 02:49 AM	#48
flgataz108 Rookie OVR: 0 Join Date: Aug 2003	Re: Official OS letter to EA lots of good points in here. however, unfortunately, the good points are mostly bad news. good example of what a lot of you are saying.. i'm playing basketball with a bunch of guys i don't know at a rec center and madden gets brought up. Dude: Madden is so sick for the 360. The graphics are just nuts. And you play that superstar mode? you get to be your own player. it's the s###. Me: are you serious? doesn't (insert entire Bugs/glitches thread here).. bother you at all? Dude: whoa dude. you needa get a life. it's only a video game.(All others nod in agreement) This pretty much sums up how 99 percent of the people who buy madden feel about the game. they are happy with it the way it is, and the graphical upgrade on the 360 is "next gen" enough for them. Basically, the game isn't going to get overhauled to the dream game i think some of us are picturing, but a letter that included all the things that we want specifically improved, opposed to general complaining about they're business philosophy. we might as wel try and bring down capitalism. __________________ Billy Bob cried, cause Billy Bob's kind of a cryer, and Tweeter drank beers, well, cause Tweeter drinks beer.

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