Turnovers explained in length

[Kramer5150]

Quote: Originally Posted by Moostache

I do not have any empirical evidence to back this up, but what I have found in both NCAA AND Madden 2008 is that using the RB button to cover the ball actually CAUSES more fumbles than it prevents. I noticed this as far back as the NCAA Conmmunity Day in July - I simply did not use the cover the ball button and I had far fewer turnovers than anyone else was experiencing. Hell, it was because of this that I won the whole tourney at that event! I have carried that philosophy into both NCAA and Madden online this year and I rarely have massive trouble with fumbles - I still have them, but no where near frequently enough to feel that its a glitch in the game.... I am dead serious when I say that to avoid fumbles there are three things a manually controlled player can do - 1) NEVER hit the RB for 'cover the ball', 2) NEVER spin or juke in traffic, and 3) ALWAYS take the hits off center when you can (ie. - instead of trying to run over a guy, sacrifice the extra yard to TURN your player away from the hit!). Take it for what its worth....won't solve anyone's issues with the CPU apparently fumbling too much, but it will reduce your own number of turnovers by at least a factor of 3....

It's funny you mention this.
I have tried to stay away from the fumbling discussions purely for the reason as I don't see them as much as other folks do (not saying they don't
exist).
Using the Steelers, I rarely (if ever) fumble with Parker,and this is also with not using the "cover up" button...but I still juke and stiff-arm whenever possible. If he does happen to fumble,it's usually when he gets caught in his juke and is leveled with a hard shot.

The biggest part of the fumbling problem I get...when my receiver catches the ball (or its ruled a catch, but it's clearly not) and gets leveled, I can't challenge the "catch" instead I can only challenge the fumble,which if the cpu recovers,is pointless.
If we would be given more challenge options,I feel this would remedy alot (not all) of the fumblitis.

[ChicagoChris]

Agree with most of the above. Its not really a problem with me fumbling...its the pure amount of non-fumbles that are happening and not being challenged by the CPU. I have resorted, as have others, to challenging for the CPU with my challenges. This at least keeps it somewhat fair.

I see more fumbles caused by the field than anything...

[mdgoalie37]

Quote: Originally Posted by ChicagoChris

Agree with most of the above. Its not really a problem with me fumbling...its the pure amount of non-fumbles that are happening and not being challenged by the CPU. I have resorted, as have others, to challenging for the CPU with my challenges. This at least keeps it somewhat fair. I see more fumbles caused by the field than anything...

Actually you can move over the controller and use the CPU's challenges. If you time it right - meaning hit Start and switch it before the play call screen for the next play comes up, challenge it, and then switch it right back - you can do this without needed to be the CPU team for a play. If you are wrong it just costs a timeout, which the CPU never uses until the last 2 minutes anyhow.

[Brando70]

Quote: Originally Posted by JBH3

A step on the corner...I have played over 50 games and the only time I have had a WR wide open on a streak was if the CB was blitzing or I ran a flea flicker. It is impossible to get a "step" on the CB because the only way they will be out of position is on a blitz or some kind of flea flicker play/playaction.

Not sure what level you are playing on, but I've managed to get some deep passes to Bernard Berrian and Mushin Muhammed in my Bears franchise. Some of those have come with the DB close to the WR and either the pass going over the shoulder or the DB missing his swat. This is on All-Pro with Knockdowns and Def Awareness lowered. I think throwing deep is actually easier than it was in the last couple of years.

As for the turnovers, mine are not really the issue. Fumbles are a pain at times, but seem to come in bunches. 70% of my picks are probably my fault, and I can live with some of the superhuman AI picks even if they are annoying. Instead, as others have said, it's:

1) The CPU turns it over too much, especially with fumbles. This seems like it would be a relatively easy fix -- make it so the CPU doesn't fumble as much!

2) Too many CPU turnovers lead to human TDs. I'm 9 games into my Bears franchise and I have 7 defensive TDs. This is much more difficult to fix. If the CPU QB throws an out that my CB jumps the route on, he should be able to take it back for a big gain. And, as any Bears fan knows, professional QBs do make some incredibly bone-headed throws. The issue is, how to make the CPU QB not throw that pass as often as it does, especially with elite QBs who should know better? That's a more complicated AI question that seems beyond the means of a patch.

I have a feeling if #2 is addressed in a patch, it's going to be that DBs will be dropping those picks instead of catching them. That will not be as satisfying as better QB AI, but it would restore some balance to the game.

[Blue_Monkey]

Up to this point this thread has basically been about how everyone feels the game IS right now for them.

Has anyone changed their opinion one way or the other about the game? Has this thread helped or not helped someone?

[truryder4life]

Quote: Originally Posted by cdon2k

YYou never get a 'step' on the DB unless they are blitzing or you have some SERIOUS play action going on.

What team do you play with cdon2k? I play exclusively with the Raiders and there fastest WR is 93, and if I match him up with a safety, sometimes he can get a step and catch the lob in stride and walk in for a TD. But generally that doesn't happen. 93 spd isn't really fast enough to work, but in my old franchises, I used to trade for speed weapon WRs like Kevin Curtis or Troy Williamson. In order to complete the pass, you will need a little time in pocket, and if you see single coverage on these receivers, bomb it out there and I guarantee you will slowly see your WR separate from the CB. I've even completed this pass in with safety help over the top. Of course, if the CB also has a speed weapon, this probably wont work, but if he doesn't, he is toast. Take your team to practice mode and play the browns. I don't think either of their starting corners are above 90 spd, and if you have time, watch a speed receiver separate on them like nothing

[cdon2k]

I use the Colts of all teams (lol here in Indiana), but yeah, I may have to try burning the Browns in practice mode to get more of a feel for it. As it stands, I am so afraid to throw deep due to the DB ai, but in single coverage without the saftey's help, it is probably possible (not common, but possible). Like I said, I have seen it like once or twice.

After going back to PS2 for a bit, I actually like that 360 is difficult to go long (kinda feel that last gen was a bit too easy), but I feel like there has to be better ways to do it than interceptions. HERE IS THE ANSWER, TIPPED BALLS! Instead of making these magic interceptions, I just wish the DB's would knock the ball down a la 07 (although 07 on 360 didn't have much d due to lack of gang tackles). Yep, tipped balls are the answer...

[FluffyTonka]

Tipped balls are definitely an answer that can be done via a patch. Hopefully next year, better programming, more AI and more animations will fix the problem properly.

In about 30 odd games I've played, I've only hit Driver in stride on a lob pass for a TD once. I've gone long on PA and picked up a lot of yards ... Its a problem when you don't want to pass because you know you're gonna get picked by anyone. It should be you only worry about passing near certain guys (like Bailey, Trufant, Henry etc etc) not backup safties with an overall rating of 71 picking you off like its easy.

I really think the field physics and camera angle are to blame. Unless you scramble out of the pocket and over to the flank you want to pass to, your number 1 and 2 receivers are useless, throwing to them is asking to be picked off.

The field needs to be wider, the camera further away so you can see more than your slot reciever or TE ... These would change the game for the better IMO ... Sadly that can't be patched.