Turnovers explained in length

[Blue_Monkey]

Quote: Originally Posted by bears5122

The players don't do what they do in a real game. Real NFL players can't stop on a dime. They can't see out of the back of their head. They don't go into hyper-speed to catch up to a receiver. There is no button combination that will make this look like a realistic game. It just wan't built to be one.

Some of the things we have to live with. They don't look right all the time. Personally I live with it cause I get games with realistic stats and when playing I honestly feel the game is WAY realistic enough in how it feels and players move.

I guess the thing that irritates most people are the superhuman defensive plays that happen. We can discuss more about that and I touched on it in my original post. I gave some basic things to do and consider when passing so the defenders can't make these superhuman plays.

One example that's often heard is that defenders see through their own heads. For example it might happen like this in Madden: You have a player running a crossing route with defenders in a zone in the area. You throw the ball across the field and all of a sudden the defender turns and picks it off. Superhuman play recorded.

Real life version: Same play, same decision by the QB. Because it's a zone, most defenders will have their eyes in the backfield looking at the QB, especially the ones who don't have a man in their zones right then. When the ball is thrown and they see which defender it's going to, that player has his teammates shouting "Ball!Ball!Ball!". Because that player is a professional defender, he reacts to the ball and tries to break it up. Sometimes he's able to turn around and record a superhuman interception depending on HOW the QB threw the ball.

These plays don't happen every time you throw that ball in Madden. Also a lot of times the ball is just broken up. When it happens, it looks superhuman and unrealistic but we're going to have to live with that and I'll tell you why. How something happens is not the most important thing, how often it happens is. And given that these plays don't happen every time, I'm living with them.

I also told in the original post how I played a game against the Bears. I threw it 46 times (I was way behind) and completed 23 for less than 200 yards but no INT's. Before this game I went to practice mode and decided to really find out how the defense works in this game. It was a revelation when I found out that I could really manipulate the defense with correct timing, correct leading of the receiver and correct decisions based on the coverage.

It was a beautiful game cause before that I too had accepted the fact that the defenders play like superhumans.

[SportsTop]

Quote: Originally Posted by seanmac

The inference is that the turnovers are primarily a result of user error, which is not true. The turnovers are primarily a result of design decision. Not that I didn't talk about fumbles at all in my post, because I respect the fact that EA is adding randomness to a game where it has been largely absent. Is it overdone? Yes. The fact that I have had multiple, and I mean multiple plays where the ball was fumbled three different times over the course of one play (and without any spins or jukes that might make a fumble more likely) suggests that there is a problem. But I can live with that. What I have a harder time with is dealing with AI that forces me to alter my game in unrealistic ways in order to have success.

I haven't seen the fumble issue that a lot of people are complaining about. In fact, I would argue that user fumbles are primarily a result of everything the OP posted (not running out of bounds, trying to do too much when around more than one defender, etc.).

[bears5122]

Quote: Originally Posted by Squint

I haven't seen the fumble issue that a lot of people are complaining about. In fact, I would argue that user fumbles are primarily a result of everything the OP posted (not running out of bounds, trying to do too much when around more than one defender, etc.).

So since the computer never runs out of bounds, that is the reason they fumble so much?

[ycbs]

Ever since learning to use the cover the ball button at the appropriate times, I've had no excessive fumbling problems at all, either in NCAA 08 or Madden 08. And while every once in a while I do question a CPU interception, most of them are clearly my fault, and learning to be more responsible when throwing the ball has definitely helped me in this area.

The one thing I have not yet learned or heard how to prevent is the CPU-thrown INTs. My AI teammates intercept way too many passes and I easily average 1.5+ INTs returned for TD per game. Since I don't throw the pass, or control my teammate intercepting the pass, and haven't found any sliders that fix this issue, what am I supposed to do? The only thing that sounds like it's been effective is the global editing of defensive player ratings, but that is much too tedious, and also only good for the players already in the game, not incoming rookies.

The only thing I've heard at all in this thread that I'd not heard before is putting WR Catching at zero. Since this doesn't make sense to me, since the rating isn't Defensive Catching, are you supposed to lower both Human and CPU WR Catching to zero or just one or the other?

[SportsTop]

Quote: Originally Posted by bears5122

So since the computer never runs out of bounds, that is the reason they fumble so much?

Some of you people want to argue so badly that you either don't understand or totally disregard the point of certain posts.

Did you happen to see the word "user" in my post?

[Hammerhunker]

Quote: Originally Posted by Squint

I haven't seen the fumble issue that a lot of people are complaining about. In fact, I would argue that user fumbles are primarily a result of everything the OP posted (not running out of bounds, trying to do too much when around more than one defender, etc.).

You must have THE one magic disk that was created without funky fumbles if you haven't seen the fumble issue. It does not matter if I cover up or not, it is as if all the strength has left the ball carrier's arms and ball just, plummets to the ground as soft as a floating feather. I will go a few games without seeing it, but when it happens, it happens in boatloads, for both sides. I have convinced myself to just live with it.

One adjustment I wish that could be made is when a fumble occurs, would be to see a piled scrum and some sort of drama as to who has the ball, (I know the refs can come in to unpile the pile and make the call for obvious reasons), but the scrum itself would be neat and realistic. I shake my head at players in the congestion of the fumble area come running in trying to scoop and run with the ball. No one ever just dives on it and covers up. Nitpicky, but maybe doable someday.

[SportsTop]

Quote: Originally Posted by Hammerhunker

You must have THE one magic disk that was created without funky fumbles if you haven't seen the fumble issue. It does not matter if I cover up or not, it is as if all the strength has left the ball carrier's arms and ball just, plummets to the ground as soft as a floating feather. I will go a few games without seeing it, but when it happens, it happens in boatloads, for both sides. I have convinced myself to just live with it.

Based off the original post and some of the replies it doesn't seem like I have THE one magical disk.

[Blue_Monkey]

Quote: Originally Posted by Squint

Based off the original post and some of the replies it doesn't seem like I have THE one magical disk.

No you don't, there's probably several magical disks.

So now it's time for the sliders that MAY OR MAY NOT help somebody. Remember that sliders are personal depending on your playing style. Also, Madden is a wacky game cause things change from game to game (thank God for it!). So playing one quarter, one game or two games probably isn't enough to make any judgements. And judgements don't come in the form of "I feel this or that", they come best in the form of stats.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Original sliders: Squint's/TJ's All Pro

Difficulty: All Madden (original sliders were meant for All Pro)
Quarter Length: 10 Minute Quarters (or whatever gets you and the CPU 60-65 plays)
Weapons: Choice

Offensive playbook: M.Shanahan
Defensive playbook: Baltimore Ravens
Offensive philosophy: Ball control
Defensive philosophy: Bend-but-don't-break


(Human/CPU)

Offense

QB Accuracy: 54/70
Pass Blocking: 61/56
WR Catching: 0/0
RB Ability: 48/62
Run Blocking: 49/76

Defense

Awareness: 0/70
Knockdowns: 85/67
Interceptions: 0/0
Break Block: 41/53
Tackling: 39/51

Special Teams

FG Power: 35/30
FG Accuracy: 0/0
Punt Power: 91/83
Punt Accuracy: 42/80
Kickoff Power: 20/20

Penalties

Offsides: 10
False Start: 80
Holding: 60
Facemask: 100
Offensive PI: 100
Defensive PI: 85
KR/PR Interference: 100
Clipping: 60
INT Grounding: 100
Roughing Passer: 100
Roughing Kicker: 100
-------------------------------------------------------------

I don't know if this thread is allowed to become a slider thread cause there's already a forum for that. But there we go. One thing that I've noticed when I see sliders from others is I tend to think "that slider can't be at that and this slider can't be at that". Sometimes it's true but remember that that slider's value is based on some other slider also having a different value.

I'll answer any questions or comments and I can go into more detail about passing strategy etc. There's others too that feel the same way about the game as I do so they'll probably help too. But I guess these sliders are posted more for the problems with the CPU turning the ball over too much.

Like Squint said, don't look to argue. We're here to discuss and I have zero interest in answering hate posts. Keep an open mind and you might have a better Madden on your hands.