Serious Talk: Pocket passing

[countryboy]

Quote: Originally Posted by IStillDoWhatIDo

I subscribe to the believe that Madden should implement a pocket, but it's not #1 on my list. Realistically speaking, after a 3 step drop, the ball is supposed to be OUT of the QB's hands. In general, the ball is supposed to be out as soon as possible. With that said, do you really think the average person has the mental skills of a QB to read a defense and react in a timely enough fashion to even utilize a pocket? The reason why people drop back SO FAR is because they are scared of being sacked. He has to look at himself AND the field, much like the panic that REAL NFL QBs face, except that they have such a knowledge of the playbook and the game, that they can overcome it. With that being said, how can madden Effectively implement a pocket and cater to the ignorance of the average, casual fan's football IQ? because in today's madden, u can stand in the pocket area if you want, but it's just fearful because we aren't skilled enough to do so

I understand what you are saying and agree with you. However.....

Quote: Originally Posted by SageTheInfinite

Just have a sim mode and a more arcade mode. Other than that they need to stop catering to the casual gamer. Hardcore gamers are the ones that will support the game, yet we get the short of end of the stick. Let them adjust to the gameplay.

^^^

This is my solution/feeling as well. EA needs to learn that you can't please all of the people all of the time and have to choose who they want as a customer. Those who play the game for the NFL experience, or those who play the game because it has a NFL logo on it.

[Helios12787]

Effective o-line AI is the first step to getting more realistic pocket passing.

Our offensive line needs to be able to evaluate defensive threats and adjust their blocking accordingly (not just sticking to the first person who plays tag with em).

Until then we just have to deal with every person playing like their QB is Michael Vick.

[BezO]

I'm glad to see others making a big deal of this. The QB pocket / line play is the major reason I don't enjoy Madden/NCAA. So much FOOTBALL is eliminated from the game. A sim experience is impossible without a serious overhaul in this area.

And I know some only consider realistic scores necessary for a sim experience. Understand that I'm talking about on a play by play, gameplay basis... how plays develop, not just the results.

I wish these websites that interview these EA reps had folks on staff that addressed these things. This & this other thread should be put in question form and presented to the lead producer. That pro-2K vid posted earlier not only shows authentic gameplay, but that simulation won't kill the casual experience. The QB in the 2K8 clips had all day to pass... without having to drop back 20 yards. That could be the blocking you get on the lower levels, with more realistic time allowed on the higher levels. Preserving the casual experience is NOT why EA doesn't deliver a more authentic football experience!

[LingeringRegime]

I really hope that the sim style experience is not just playing Head Coach 09. But, my gut reaction says that is where we are heading.

[DLaren]

Quote: Originally Posted by SageTheInfinite

Just have a sim mode and a more arcade mode.

Quote: Originally Posted by countryboy

^^^ This is my solution/feeling as well. EA needs to learn that you can't please all of the people all of the time and have to choose who they want as a customer. Those who play the game for the NFL experience, or those who play the game because it has a NFL logo on it.

EA's attempt to pacify the hardcore, sim gamer is called NFL Headcoach'09...

[RyanLeaf16]

Quote: Originally Posted by IStillDoWhatIDo

I subscribe to the believe that Madden should implement a pocket, but it's not #1 on my list. Realistically speaking, after a 3 step drop, the ball is supposed to be OUT of the QB's hands. In general, the ball is supposed to be out as soon as possible. With that said, do you really think the average person has the mental skills of a QB to read a defense and react in a timely enough fashion to even utilize a pocket? The reason why people drop back SO FAR is because they are scared of being sacked. He has to look at himself AND the field, much like the panic that REAL NFL QBs face, except that they have such a knowledge of the playbook and the game, that they can overcome it. With that being said, how can madden Effectively implement a pocket and cater to the ignorance of the average, casual fan's football IQ? because in today's madden, u can stand in the pocket area if you want, but it's just fearful because we aren't skilled enough to do so

Zihin has proven that a pocket exists in Madden 08. Like you said, when someone keeps dropping back, that pocket breaks down. When you roll left or right, the pocket breaks down. Don't leave the pocket. Simple as that.


Leaf

[IStillDoWhatIDo]

Quote: Originally Posted by RyanLeaf16

Zihin has proven that a pocket exists in Madden 08. Like you said, when someone keeps dropping back, that pocket breaks down. When you roll left or right, the pocket breaks down. Don't leave the pocket. Simple as that. Leaf

I agree that madden has a faux pocket. But what makes it unauthentic is this:

1. In life and 2k, the passrush happens on sides and even behind you, so that it is dangerous to try to break out and run around. Madden never quite secures you in that spot, on every play, you're free to do what you want. Sure, I can stay in and try to weazle around the pocket to make myself FEEL LIKE there a pocket, but why should I when I don't need to. no TRUE pocket.
2. I have to go play it, but I from the videos I watch, I believe 2K MAKES u stop, at least BRIEFLY when you drop back. Then after that 1.5 seconds of canned animation, you're free to dance around, scramble, etc. That's what I suspect from the videos. On madden, you're so scared of being sacked and so concentrated on your recievers, you might just hold back the whole time out of habit.

[BigTigLSU]

Quote: Originally Posted by IStillDoWhatIDo

I agree that madden has a faux pocket. But what makes it unauthentic is this: 1. In life and 2k, the passrush happens on sides and even behind you, so that it is dangerous to try to break out and run around. Madden never quite secures you in that spot, on every play, you're free to do what you want. Sure, I can stay in and try to weazle around the pocket to make myself FEEL LIKE there a pocket, but why should I when I don't need to. no TRUE pocket. 2. I have to go play it, but I from the videos I watch, I believe 2K MAKES u stop, at least BRIEFLY when you drop back. Then after that 1.5 seconds of canned animation, you're free to dance around, scramble, etc. That's what I suspect from the videos. On madden, you're so scared of being sacked and so concentrated on your recievers, you might just hold back the whole time out of habit.

The lack of a pocket kills any authentic replication of football. Like I siad before in Madden the players react in a vaccum the Oline Block out of the need to block the man that engages him forcing defenders to run directly into a blocker to start the blocking animation..... The QB isnt affected by the Oline and Dline interaction unless the Oline fails to block. There isnt PRESSURE forcing the pocket to collapse or the QB to move up in the pocket because either the DE beats the Tackle or he doesnt. This then forces players to Nano Blitz with LBs to get pressure exploiting the fact that OLine is programmed to engage the man that runs into him or his direct path or he will stand still and watch him run by him.