What's the problem with EA?

[countryboy]

Quote: Originally Posted by SteelerSpartan

EA pushes it though....lets not forget what they have tried to do with DLC...[i]cough..charging for alts..cough..cough I still try to hold out optimism for this year too, but when you see them adding features like time powers....you have to wonder

Well, EA charging for alternate uniforms in my mind is no different then games charging for extra songs, maps, or what have you. Thats the new face of online gaming and downloadable content. Sure they could give it away free, but why should they when they don't have to?

And as far as the turning back time(rewind feature), I scratch my head at things like that as well. But then, I quickly remember that I, as a sim gamer, are in the minority.

[sportsdude]

Quote: Originally Posted by jfsolo

In my opinion MVP's hitting and pitching engines were as deeply flawed as many of the poorer aspects of Madden, lessening its simulation level considerably, but for a lot of people it was a very fun game anyway, so its really about what unrealistic components of a game can you tolerate.

I knew I wasn't the only one who felt this way about MVP 05. It really made it unplayable for me but that discussion is for a different forum.

Quote:

For them there is no discernible difference between a DE pancaking a LT straight to the ground , and the two linemen engaging in a dual with great collision detection showing superbly animated footwork and handfighting.

And the offensive/defensive line interaction has been one of my biggest gripes with Madden. I tolerated in last gen because I figured when they got to next gen, certain things would be fixed. Well, you know what they say about assuming.

To me, if they could that what you said above, I would likely be sold on Madden for at least the next decade. To me, improper O/D-line interaction makes the running game a crapshoot and the passing game random. When I play as Dwight Freeney against a crappy tackle, I shouldn't be dominated the entire game, getting pancaked five times in the process.

[chitownballa]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

My question would be does EA really aspire to be great. GTA IV is a good example: they could've done any number of cookie-cutter quick releases and capitalized off the GTA's popularity to make a quick buck. And given the company's financial situation I don't think anyone could've blamed them. They even delayed the game for quality reasons last year. And it resulted in a truly great game, with so many little attention to detail "features" that people will likely be discovering on their own for I don't know how long. Rockstar could've taken the easy route, instead they seemingly aspired to make a great game and set out to do so. Halo, GTA, Zelda, Metal Gear, Mario, Madden, Final Fantasy, etc... EA once said it considers Madden to be a game that stands in the company of those great games. But if you look at them all at face Madden is the one that doesn't belong - and it's not because it's a sports game. I don't own The Show, but I think it was last year 989 chose to release the game late - which concerned a lot of gamers. Then this year in a shorter development cycle (because they released last year's game late) they released an excellent The Show '08. NFL2K did something similar - 2K4 released late; everyone said it was idiotic given Madden's huge sales advantage at the time. The next year on a shorter dev schedule they released a benchmark game in NFL2K5. Another example of developers that aspired to make great games and set out to do so. The battered wife analogy I made years ago stands more true today. When people try to think of reasons why Madden hasn't made the leap other great games have made, you usually get some sort of rationalizing excuse from the fans. It's not the developers fault, it's the suits. EA's a big company and they need to make the stockholders happy. It's only been three years, give them some time to get used to the new hardware. They got the dev kits late and it's thrown everything off (my personal favorite). Like a battered wife, making excuses for the reasons her man is the way he is. Yeah, he gave you a black eye in '06 and kicked you down the steps in '07, but he's not hitting you as hard in '08... he's getting better. People have become so used to it, they're actually happy for less azz whoopin's instead of the fact they shouldn't be getting any azz whoopins. Is it a self-respect thing when someone chooses to continue in a bad situation? When looked at in those terms, it doesn't seem to cool to be bragging that they're going to buy Madden/NCAA "regardless" of what it is, because they can't help themselves. Of course I'm not meaning to take something serious like spousal abuse and equate it to videogames. But the similarities are there. And until people start having higher expectations of EA instead of lowering their expectations to meet what EA does, this cycle will continue. Since EA has managed to eliminate competition, more than ever fans need to have higher expectations of them because there will be no other company pushing them.

I think the developers might want a great game, but once again, in a year's span I don't know if that's possible. Like with GTA4... all the detail and all the little features that make the game great took years to develop. That's why the due date was continually pushed back. The company gave the developers time to do that. But with EA sports, with such a strict deadline, it's difficult to do that.

The same sort of thing happens with 2K. Honestly, the new game that comes out every year doesn't feel that much different. It seems as if they tweaked some gameplay features and called it a new game. That doesn't make it a bad game... their gameplay for NBA 2K is still better than EA's NBA Live, but that doesn't mean NBA 2K makes big strides year in and year out. I really think it would be better if EA/2K took a year off every other year to really get the game where it could be.

[ODogg]

I think one thing that makes so many people upset with EA is that there are small things that they could do each year that would score big points but yet they chose not to. For example, dreadlocks in NCAA. For quite a few people this being missing is ridiculous because it's been in Madden for years and used to be on the PS2. And each year it's expected that this will be the year they fix this detail which should be a simple fix and add more flavor to the game. Yet each year they simply ignore it.

Don't misunderstand me, it's not that it's all that important, it's just that it is a small thing that diehards love. There are tons of examples of somewhat trivial things that diehards want to see in the game that would go a long ways toward making people less angry with EA such as weather and alternates working online, variable in game weather, team entrances (even if somewhat generic), classic teams with numbers that are editable like on the ps2, cpu vs cpu, co-op online play vs the cpu or 2 on 2 online, etc etc.

The point i'm trying to make is what makes so many of us really frustrated is that most of us have already come to accept many of the limitations that EA is going to have in their football games but we just want some of the things that are relatively minor fixed and yet year after year we eagerly await our pet issue(s) of choice, small minor things for the most part, and yet year after year the devs say "we wanted to get xxxxx in but we simply ran out of time....maybe next year" and all of us just want to scream because it's been going on for years like this on next-gen.

Death by a thousand paper cuts. Very infuriating and over time has caused many of us, myself included, to become jaded and silently enraged. Alot of us, again myself included, still enjoy the game, we are just frustrated as to why so many of these minor details can't be fixed to appease those of us who have been loyal throughout the years.

[dbrandon]

Quote: Originally Posted by IStillDoWhatIDo

For the last few years, EA has not been living up to its expectations. Why do you think that is? a. Lazy - they have the resources and funds to do the work, but they chose not to. They have the license and don't need to work. b. Marketing - the fans will come back year after year and our ideas run thin, so let's give them as little as possible at a time. Don't make the "perfect" game all at once. c. Skill - they aren't capable of creating a fresh engine that is more football and presentation savy than the competition d. Apathy - OS and other message boards are only 5% of the gaming community and we will have the casual consumer on lock, so we'll tell them anything to assuage them and do us. e. Other I used to think it was an issue of laziness and/or marketing, but I'm starting to think that they just aren't that talented. It's like once the next gen systems hit, they were dumbfounded, how do u have FG nets in current gen, but not next gen, simple things *I know I can create a "real poll" but these are ideas for thought.

The answer is F. Greed

[countryboy]

Quote: Originally Posted by dbrandon

The answer is F. Greed

actually, greed would fall under the "other" category.

[spankdatazz22]

Quote: Originally Posted by chitownballa

The same sort of thing happens with 2K. Honestly, the new game that comes out every year doesn't feel that much different. It seems as if they tweaked some gameplay features and called it a new game.

I wasn't saying I expect Madden to make GTA IV like improvements in the span of one year. GTA IV isn't some dramatic reimagining of what came before it in GTA San Andreas. The Show '08 is the '07 engine refined. Same w/NFL2K5 and NFL2K4. Games built on solid foundations and made significantly better. My problem w/EA's approach is they've never taken the tough steps of shoring up the foundation in order to build on a better game in future iterations. Working on OL/DL play or player interaction isn't as glamorous or sound as good on the back of a box as pretty graphics or cool user-controlled celebrations. But that sales-first focus is why the game is where it is imo. We're no longer talking about a one year improvement, it's going on four years now - which makes things even worse

[chitownballa]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

I wasn't saying I expect Madden to make GTA IV like improvements in the span of one year. GTA IV isn't some dramatic reimagining of what came before it in GTA San Andreas. The Show '08 is the '07 engine refined. Same w/NFL2K5 and NFL2K4. Games built on solid foundations and made significantly better. My problem w/EA's approach is they've never taken the tough steps of shoring up the foundation in order to build on a better game in future iterations. Working on OL/DL play or player interaction isn't as glamorous or sound as good on the back of a box as pretty graphics or cool user-controlled celebrations. But that sales-first focus is why the game is where it is imo. We're no longer talking about a one year improvement, it's going on four years now - which makes things even worse

Yea, that is probably the biggest issue, and that's also going to be the most time consuming. Building that solid foundation is probably going to take at least a few years to develop... something EA and 2K don't have time to do year in and year out. So when a game starts out good on a system... like Madden and NFL 2K did on the PS2/Xbox... then it tends to be good for its entire run (which I think Madden and 2K were). And when games don't start out as good on a system, like Madden on the 360/PS3, there's not really enough time given to change core gameplay aspects like that, and so the game never really improves beyond a few minor changes.

That's the biggest issue. Like someone earlier said, taking a year or two off and rebuilding the game, or at least correcting the major gameplay issues, would ultimately make EA a better game. But EA's never going to do that because they're making money releasing a game every year.