Ian Cummings - Let's Dialogue - Gang/2 Player Tackling and Interaction

[BrianFifaFan]

Quote: Originally Posted by NovaStar

Never! I will believe all of the stuff I am reading and "some what" seeing, when the game actually comes out and some unbiased people play it. Until then, ea's status does not change. For all of you that thought that guys that praised 2k5 were zealots and/or madden haters, you now see why the game received so much appreciation, now even ea is admitting the game was very effective at protraying the game of football, and is seeking to emulate 2k5 (nuff said). The vids that Ian posted looked better than before, but again, as always with madden you have to play it to get the real story. A step in the right direction? Sure, I will buy that. Thanks Ian for the response to LB. LB you are the man!

The irony of your post is that you don't notice that I AM a huge 2k fanboy! I've been told to shut up and don't buy because in some of the earlier threads I was all "2k did this great and why can't Madden do this?" So you know what I did? When I saw that Ian was interacting on the forums at EA, I tried to articulate my thoughts/concerns in a post that wasn't full of anger, but just asked "why?" And he gave me my own thread for an answer. And told me the truth. He didn't give me PR hype and didn't play "yes man." Now the ball was in my court. Would I accept those answers? And do I believe enough in that team to support their effort? I've decided "yes." And it's my decision alone. I'm the type of person that a handshake and a kind word means a lot more than "getting my way."

Now I guess I'd have to pose it to the rest of the "Debbie Downers." The balls in your court, what are you gonna do? You can buy it, or not. You can try to articulate your ideas/concerns/constructive criticisms or you can get internet Tourrett's and just use the useless limited vocabulary of "Madden Sucks! and EA is the Devil." While those feelings may be valid, they really don't fix a thing. They just bring the whole forum down. And don't help get the game that we all really want anyway. ODogg said it well, eventually we fall into the "impossible to please" category. And then all we're left with is "bitterness, clinging to our guns and bibles.........."

P.S. I wasn't inferring that you are that way, just talking concepts and addressing how many of these threads have degenerated into the land of being useless.

P.S.S. Here's the response to my question. You can get your concerns out in a way that doesn't offend....http://forums.ea.com/mboards/thread....6412&tstart=30

[Goffs]

impressive...now get the oline/dline interaction a little better then we are in business!

[BezO]

Quote: Originally Posted by Scott

You know one thing I'd love to see is where the running back doesn't get tackle but rather stood up and then the whistle is blown.

Yup! Or just ridden out of bounds without going down.

Quote: Originally Posted by TheFuture15

Yeah, I agree with you. Simon (our animation director) was a High School linebacker and I hear basically the exact same feedback from him about wanting to be able to use moves to get free of blockers and have it feel much more responsive.

Yeah, more moves(Rips, standing up the blocker, Reggie White's hump move, hand fighting...) and also some mobility in engaged blocks... TEs riding OLBs on outside runs, OTs riding DEs beyond the QB, ect. There needs to be more sucessful block animations that end with something besides a stone wall, cut or pancake. A lot of good blocks are from just good footwork and positioning.

Quote: Originally Posted by Scott

I must say, in the Bears clip with Grossman, very nice pocket.

Yeah, that was decent. The DE on the right side of the screen got up the field a little. I'd like to see how 74 got in late on the right side.

But the key is to see what happens when someone drops back more than that. Other vids SHOW a pocket, but it's not functional. QBs are dropping 20 yards back and DEs are not taking the angle created. A DE should be able to take a b-line to a QB that drops back that far. No OT should be able to protect against the angle created from a drop that deep.

Quote: Originally Posted by TheFuture15

About a quarter of the way in, one of the runs with Peterson against the Packers (with the Instant Replay UI up on the screen), you should see some awesomeness: 1. AP starts a wrap with big #97 on the Packers coming off his block 2. Then #51 "steals the tackle" to try and stop him (since Peterson was falling forward against #97) 3. #20 adds on to actually push him backwards and stop forward progress 4. #31 adds on to make the final gang tackle and deliver a hit

You all have made some great improvements, but I still have to say that 2K is ahead. Too many of your multi-player tackles are clean up and take over animations. Notice in 2K, defenders add on way more often.

You all seem to have a different definition of gang tackling than me. You all seem to count defenders whose tackles are broken and defenders who are knocked of by other defenders. My definition would only include defenders that actually take the ball carrier to the ground.

Quote: Originally Posted by mrnoobie

impressive...now get the oline/dline interaction a little better then we are in business!

Yeah, their are aspects of the running & passing game that won't be complete without improvements here.



Ian, thanks for the dialog. It's good to know OS is on the radar. I think the more hardcore FOOTBALL suggestions can be found here, so stop by more often. And take a look at my defensive play calling suggestion in the '09 wishlist thread. I think it will open up your defensive playbooks without having to actually add plays.

[Deltron]

The running game looks much more fluid which is a huge improvement. It looks like they've finally gotten rid of the awful skating.

I'm still a bit skeptical about true gang tackling. I watched the videos and I couldn't find a tackle which matched the last tackle on LBzrule's 2k vid -- where the ball carrier was about to go to the ground with a defender on his back and Ray Lewis added on to the animation, completely changing it while the 1st defender still maintained the tackle.

I'm seeing the typical 2 defender animation where a gang tackle occurs because two defenders are in proximity of the RB before a tackle animation starts. But I didn't see any tackles where one guy was bringing the runner down and another player added on to the tackle, pushing the RB in a different direction.

It looks almost as if when a 2nd guy tries to add on to a tackle, he ends up taking over the tackle, shedding the 1st tackler in the process. That doesn't really constitute gang tackling, if that is the case.

Of course the dialog is nice, but I think people may be getting a bit carried away. I'll still reserve judgment until I actually play this thing or see more detailed videos.

[buttsakk]

Wow, thank you Ian for stopping by and discussing this with us, really good to see those videos from the blog. Also a big Thank You to LBsrule, because with out him this great thread would have never happened. Great stuff from the both of you!

[Jistic]

I just can't believe how good they got natural lighting. I'm amazed.

[BezO]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jistic

I just can't believe how good they got natural lighting. I'm amazed.

I don't know if it's the lighting making the grass look like that, but the field looks excellent. EA has the look down. Whenever they can get the animations to match, it'll be 1989 all over again for me.

[greenegt]

I'm pumped for this year's Madden. Judging from the vids, EA has made some impressive strides with the engine. Thanks, Ian, for providing developer feedback. It's great to hear from you guys.