The Lack of Situational Awareness

[greer504]

I read plenty on this board but never really post. Don't know if this has been mentioned but one thing however that never seems to be looked at in any sports game I have ever played, and I have played a lot, is the lack of players being aware of the situation. What do I mean by this?

Example: The Giants are down by 21 points with about 2:34 to go. It looks bleak and pretty much looks like a loss, yet Eli completes a pass to Plaxico for a first down. What does Plaxico do? Celebrates all over the field like he caught a game winning pass. When a team is getting blown out, I don't think you wanna see them celebrating for the smallest accomplishment. It looks silly and doesnt make sense in the context of the situation.
This isn't just a Madden problem but I did notice in the Steelers franchise vid that Chris Chambers got a first down and jumped up and pumped his fist. His team was down by 20 points with about a minute remaining. We need to see these players react to the situation they are in and respond accordingly.
The next example is a Madden only problem which I have seen mentioned b4 and that is the offense running to the line on EVERY play. When teams are up and trying to burn clock or simply draw an offsides, they are not rushing to the line. They take their time. They are slow and methodical. This has been a problem since Madden in the ps2 era. Plus, well, it doesnt look as cool as seeing Tom Brady calmly and cooly walk to the line instead or running every single down.

[CS10029]

Quote: Originally Posted by greer504

I read plenty on this board but never really post. Don't know if this has been mentioned but one thing however that never seems to be looked at in any sports game I have ever played, and I have played a lot, is the lack of players being aware of the situation. What do I mean by this? Example: The Giants are down by 21 points with about 2:34 to go. It looks bleak and pretty much looks like a loss, yet Eli completes a pass to Plaxico for a first down. What does Plaxico do? Celebrates all over the field like he caught a game winning pass. When a team is getting blown out, I don't think you wanna see them celebrating for the smallest accomplishment. It looks silly and doesnt make sense in the context of the situation. This isn't just a Madden problem but I did notice in the Steelers franchise vid that Chris Chambers got a first down and jumped up and pumped his fist. His team was down by 20 points with about a minute remaining. We need to see these players react to the situation they are in and respond accordingly. The next example is a Madden only problem which I have seen mentioned b4 and that is the offense running to the line on EVERY play. When teams are up and trying to burn clock or simply draw an offsides, they are not rushing to the line. They take their time. They are slow and methodical. This has been a problem since Madden in the ps2 era. Plus, well, it doesnt look as cool as seeing Tom Brady calmly and cooly walk to the line instead or running every single down.

Nice post, and I couldn't agree more with you. Seeing as they already said they are going for the most realistic replication of the sport this should be changed.

[dbshady]

Yeah, This has been going on for years, it needs to stop. There has to be away to have the players not celebrate when their down by more then 20 points or something

Its different when a team is down by 14 and going into the 4th, they could just be trying to pump up a team, but when its something outrageous, especially 2 minutes left in the game, there has to be a cut-off point on celebrations.

[blackngoldfan]

I thought about this when I heard that returning missed field goals was a new feature in Madden 09. How is this gonna work? When real players return missed field goals, it's usually due to the opposing team's "lack of awareness". Are they gonna occasionally "dumb down" the A.I. in these situations by having some players trott towards the sideline, or are they gonna treat missed field goals as if it were a punt or kick off? If it's the latter, then what's the use of returning a missed field goal when my chances of gaining positive yards are slim?

[ODogg]

Quote: Originally Posted by greer504

I read plenty on this board but never really post. Don't know if this has been mentioned but one thing however that never seems to be looked at in any sports game I have ever played, and I have played a lot, is the lack of players being aware of the situation. What do I mean by this? Example: The Giants are down by 21 points with about 2:34 to go. It looks bleak and pretty much looks like a loss, yet Eli completes a pass to Plaxico for a first down. What does Plaxico do? Celebrates all over the field like he caught a game winning pass. When a team is getting blown out, I don't think you wanna see them celebrating for the smallest accomplishment. It looks silly and doesnt make sense in the context of the situation. This isn't just a Madden problem but I did notice in the Steelers franchise vid that Chris Chambers got a first down and jumped up and pumped his fist. His team was down by 20 points with about a minute remaining. We need to see these players react to the situation they are in and respond accordingly. The next example is a Madden only problem which I have seen mentioned b4 and that is the offense running to the line on EVERY play. When teams are up and trying to burn clock or simply draw an offsides, they are not rushing to the line. They take their time. They are slow and methodical. This has been a problem since Madden in the ps2 era. Plus, well, it doesnt look as cool as seeing Tom Brady calmly and cooly walk to the line instead or running every single down.

I actually emailed this on my OS Writers application as a story I would like to do. I know exactly where you are coming from and it's a huge part of what is missing from sports videogames right now.

[Sef0r]

Nice post greer504, I agree with you on the celebrations not being suitable for all situations.

As for the point of running up to the LOS I believe this is likely a decision for the masses. If they don't give players the option of being able to hurry up plays in the 5 minutes quarters they fix for online games people may be turned off by how slow the game plays (not really an option I guess as it is forced onto you).

This game is designed for the masses, 99% (prove to me this is a lower number) of the buyers of Madden games are in it for the fun so any attempt by Tiburon to make it a sim style game that coach quarterbacks will be met with rejections from EA "FUN" testers.

[Ian_Cummings]

Quote: Originally Posted by dbshady

Yeah, This has been going on for years, it needs to stop. There has to be away to have the players not celebrate when their down by more then 20 points or something Its different when a team is down by 14 and going into the 4th, they could just be trying to pump up a team, but when its something outrageous, especially 2 minutes left in the game, there has to be a cut-off point on celebrations.

Quote: Originally Posted by dbshady

Yeah, This has been going on for years, it needs to stop. There has to be away to have the players not celebrate when their down by more then 20 points or something

We actually have an extremely in depth system for this in place already. In classic-gen you'd see guys going crazy when they were down by 40 if they got a first down...we definitely don't have any of that.

The system is actually pretty damn powerful - for nearly every game event that occurred we take that and the play's results and generate a simple emotional state for every player on the field. Then we assign animations accordingly - if you are happy (i.e. a tackle for loss), you pick a random happy animation. If you are pumped (i.e. 40 yard run with 2 broken tackles), we pick a random pumped animation. And again this is per player, which means we can make all your teammates have a slightly lower emotional state than you if you were the one that did the run.

If you are seeing guys get up and celebrate when they are in a "hopeless" situation, then that's just a bug that needs to be addressed. If you know of an exact situation - score, play results, quarter, time left - post it here and I'll forward it on to QA to look for it.

As for walking to the line, we have a slow jog as the default now, but we're always going to have a way for users to hurry to the line...that's just video game football. Maybe I'm crazy, but I feel like I've seen just as many linemen jog to the line as I've seen them walk...example here:



(I am not scared to drop a 1983 UT highlight! )

[greer504]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheFuture15

We actually have an extremely in depth system for this in place already. In classic-gen you'd see guys going crazy when they were down by 40 if they got a first down...we definitely don't have any of that. The system is actually pretty damn powerful - for nearly every game event that occurred we take that and the play's results and generate a simple emotional state for every player on the field. Then we assign animations accordingly - if you are happy (i.e. a tackle for loss), you pick a random happy animation. If you are pumped (i.e. 40 yard run with 2 broken tackles), we pick a random pumped animation. And again this is per player, which means we can make all your teammates have a slightly lower emotional state than you if you were the one that did the run. If you are seeing guys get up and celebrate when they are in a "hopeless" situation, then that's just a bug that needs to be addressed. If you know of an exact situation - score, play results, quarter, time left - post it here and I'll forward it on to QA to look for it. As for walking to the line, we have a slow jog as the default now, but we're always going to have a way for users to hurry to the line...that's just video game football. Maybe I'm crazy, but I feel like I've seen just as many linemen jog to the line as I've seen them walk...example here: (I am not scared to drop a 1983 UT highlight! )

Well excuse me for being argumentitive, and maybe I'm crazy but first of all that was a college game. I'm sure we are all sick of hearing this name but ESPN NFL 2k5 allowed the QB and OL to walk to the line calmly and if you wanted them to hurry and run to the line, you simply and very easily pressed the X button. So you will have to pardon me if I don't buy the whole, "appealing to the masses" argument. It's as easy as a button press. Now I know making a video game is not easy, but I am almost sure it cant be that difficult to do. And I hate to beat a dead horse, and I mean it because 2k5 is dead, but they did it very easily. And the reason we are beating that dead horse, is because it did so many things right.

Speaking of that, and I hate to be negative but as I was typing, it just hit me that Madden is missing something extremely important. CHOICE. Rarely do you get to choose in Madden. Either its one way or no way. Vision cone, being unable to edit your players to your liking, running to the line. Why dont we have a choice? If i wanna walk to the line, let me. If i wanna edit any part of my player, let me. If i dont want the vision cone in all madden (an old problem), let me turn it off, if I want a lot of replays in my game, or if i want to actually choose what play i am challenging LET ME DO IT. Thats the problem. You dont get to choose anything. "This is what it is and you will like it" seems to be the motto.

And the biggest choice of all: you took away my choice to play 2k. CHOICE. See what I am talking about?

Anyway, I understand Mr. Ian, it isnt your fault about EA signing the NFL deal and believe me i am not pinning that on you at all. I think you are doing a great job in communicating with us, which is clearly proved as you responded to this post, but please sir dont tell me you cant have the QB WALK to the damn line.