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Old 06-30-2008, 12:16 PM   #25
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Re: Ian, this is for you. I am no FB guru but I have a ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pluto07

It irks me when my defense gets suckered by play-action on 3 & 10.....every time, all game long! I would love to tell the players to ignore the fake but I can't, so I expect them to 'learn'.
If you use pass commit in those situations you will have better success versus play-action.
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Old 06-30-2008, 12:20 PM   #26
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Re: Ian, this is for you. I am no FB guru but I have a ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alliball
Now you know the frustration of teams that try to double cover Gates in the Red Zone week in and week out.
But Gates has to really make a play - in MAdden it's often just an easy catch without any real challenge - it will work even with TE's with far lower rating and lesser physical attributes than Gates.

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Grabbing someone by the facemask and telling them what to watch out for = User Control.

If the computer did all the learning for you, there wouldn't be much point in playing.
As already stated - you can't control all eleven players at once - if a guy sets up a double team on the TE - then he should be able to expect that the guys are going to really be aware of that TE, and unless your guys are of really low stats it should have to be an excellent execution by the offence in order to succeed.

I'm not asking for the AI to do everything for me - but there needs to be mechanisms for me to communicate with my players what I want focused on. In the absence of these - the AI should give me the benefit if the doubt and have my guys adapt to a play if it is run over and over.

It matters for both sides of the game too. As the OP stated, when playing against the CPU, it often 'knows' what play you have called - this is poor AI - better AI will be set up to read and try to figure out what play you have called.

Last edited by quagga; 06-30-2008 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 06-30-2008, 12:21 PM   #27
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Re: Ian, this is for you. I am no FB guru but I have a ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawdeal28
you guys are correct, but the OP has a point. i also feel in madden sometimes that u do everthing right and somehow magically the player makes the play and not even by luck.

for example, if i double team a WR with two defenders there should be no way he catches unless......1) he out jumps my two defenders..2) out runs my 2 defenders.....3) the ball is tipped and bobbled and it ends up in his hands......or 4) my defenders slip, fall, or knock each other out the play.

too many times none of those things happen my 2 defensive players are on him like white on rice and the reciever stll catches the ball. a 71 rated reciever at that. now im not saying a low rated reciever should never catch the ball in a double team but it happen far too often in madden sometimes and it needs to stop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by quagga
I have always felt that this type of action is the result of poor AI - the reason these unnatural reactions exist is because the AI isn't capable of making a play on the ball by reacting to the QB and the rest of the offense by reading the play like real players do.

I think this is the OP's point - He shouldn't have to manually control a player to do the double team - he should be able to instruct players to do a job and trust that they will do it effectively. He knows what play is coming, and considering the number of times it has been run, he should be able to expect that the rest of his defence does as well (because he has called an appropriate defensive play). If it is an amazing execution by the offense, then so be it, but often it is just really poor defending even though you have called the right play.

To improve this, more sophisticated AI is necesssary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pluto07
A person cannot control all 11 players at once. Sometimes the AI needs to play smart as well.
IMO these are the most important points that have been made. There is never going to be a consensus opinion on this, but put me in the camp as someone who wants the AI to be able to adapt to absurdly repetitive play calling. Allowing defenders to be in position to make a play.

If the play succeeds I want the animations to reflect flawless execution and a superior physical effort by either the QB or the receiver or both. Not the defensive players somehow getting totally out of position despite knowing with almost 100% certainty what play is being ran.
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Old 06-30-2008, 01:14 PM   #28
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Re: Ian, this is for you. I am no FB guru but I have a ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfsolo
IMO these are the most important points that have been made. There is never going to be a consensus opinion on this, but put me in the camp as someone who wants the AI to be able to adapt to absurdly repetitive play calling. Allowing defenders to be in position to make a play.

If the play succeeds I want the animations to reflect flawless execution and a superior physical effort by either the QB or the receiver or both. Not the defensive players somehow getting totally out of position despite knowing with almost 100% certainty what play is being ran.
I agree with you 100% if what is being requested here is some kind of adaptive A.I....As far as the A.I. not being able to adapt to repetitive playcalling, then I agree that something needs to be done. My initial impression of the OP was that he was upset that his "perfect" defensive plays were not successful. I initially disagreed with him on that aspect, but I must admit that as far as dissecting and recognizing plays...the A.I. is terrible.
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Old 06-30-2008, 02:10 PM   #29
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Re: Ian, this is for you. I am no FB guru but I have a ?

I thank every body who has replied to this thread but I am very inerested in what Ian has to say about this. This is very annoying and might not be fixed with this irretation of Madden. well, I am not going to say that because I have yet to play the game. However, with the 360 n PS3 boasting about so much power and superior AI, how in the world is this still happening?
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Old 06-30-2008, 11:08 PM   #30
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Re: Ian, this is for you. I am no FB guru but I have a ?

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Originally Posted by Postman17
I thank every body who has replied to this thread but I am very inerested in what Ian has to say about this. This is very annoying and might not be fixed with this irretation of Madden. well, I am not going to say that because I have yet to play the game. However, with the 360 n PS3 boasting about so much power and superior AI, how in the world is this still happening?
I wish I had a nickel for how many times I've read something along the lines of "how is this still not fixed?!?!?". I'd definitely have at least 40 bucks or so. The answer?

Time.

Time.

Resources.

Time.



That being said, I am definitely with you on finding ways for them to learn to adapt...even in some more simple ways. They already do quite a bit of play tracking and adjustments, but I don't think it's all that powerful...just needs to be expanded on.
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Old 06-30-2008, 11:31 PM   #31
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Re: Ian, this is for you. I am no FB guru but I have a ?

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Originally Posted by TheFuture15
I wish I had a nickel for how many times I've read something along the lines of "how is this still not fixed?!?!?". I'd definitely have at least 40 bucks or so. The answer?

Time.

Time.

Resources.

Time.



That being said, I am definitely with you on finding ways for them to learn to adapt...even in some more simple ways. They already do quite a bit of play tracking and adjustments, but I don't think it's all that powerful...just needs to be expanded on.
A billion-dollar company can't afford more resources?
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Old 06-30-2008, 11:53 PM   #32
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Re: Ian, this is for you. I am no FB guru but I have a ?

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Originally Posted by [email protected]
A billion-dollar company can't afford more resources?
I wish I had a nickel for that one too. I'm thinking maybe 50 bucks total?

It's just not that easy unfortunately. A huge company has to make a lot more money than a small one to account for it's size. Madden is a huge business as we all know...it has and probably always will run extremely lean so as to maximize profit to keep opportunities open for EA to expand elsewhere. We have a lot of expenses with our licenses as well, so again that keeps us running lean.

I try not pretend to know how the actual personnel decisions get made, but I do know that Madden likely won't be changing, so I've accepted it and realized that my job as a senior designer is to figure out how to maximize our time as efficiently as possible. We're making huge strides here already, and will continue to do so as long as I'm around.

P.S. You need a more original username bro.

P.P.S. Do you live in TN? (Saw the TSU avatar). I was born and raised in Hendersonville.

Last edited by Ian_Cummings; 06-30-2008 at 11:55 PM.
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