Solution for Field Goal Problem?

[Rules]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheFuture15

I just found an image of Ditka...and I was right, the camera angle is a lot like NCAA's "iced kicker" camera - video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9WqP...eature=related Check out the images:

Yea you are right they are very similar. There was a kicking contest in the game that for some reason, I thought was different than that. Well, I guess that is what happens with old age, you tend to remember things a bit differently ha ha.

[Rules]

Left stick = have to align a moving cursor in the form of an X onto the football while at the same time

Right Stick is used as a swing stick like Tiger Woods Golf.

Meaning no arrow but with the option to be turned on or off.

Lower the X on the ball = higher the ball but shorter distance.

Middle of the ball = for perfect distance

Top of the ball = causes the ball to more of a line drive and for longer distance. But also increases chances of being blocked at the line.

Have the cursor moving around similar to Fight Night Round 2 (getting up from being knocked down) based on the kickers composure. Faster means he is nervous and slower means he is calm. Further away he is for the field goal means a faster moving cursor that is harder to align. Make the X bigger or smaller based on the kickers abilities in real life.

[Sigma4Life]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sigma4Life

Ian, what do you think of my idea of shortening the aiming arrow to make aiming a challenge and making the power of the kick based on timing the foot-to-ball impact?

Quote: Originally Posted by TheFuture15

Interesting...how would you foresee the ratings making a difference in that system?

Accuracy: Kickers with high accuracy rating would get a longer arrow to aim. It's easier to aim with the longer arrow because you can better visualize where the kick will end up.

Power: A kicker with a high power rating would be more forgiving in the timing of the button press that matches the foot-to-ball impact. I see it as a bell curve where the higher power rating results in a larger area under the curve.

Lets say for example there is a 1 second timing window that goes from -0.5 to 0.5 seconds. Pressing the button at the 0.0 mark would result in the best possible kick. Pressing it at the -0.5 or 0.5 mark would result in the worst possible kick. The power could break down like this:

Power based on timing of button press with foot-to-ball contact:
Timing (sec) | Power (% of max):
+/- 0.5 | 50%
+/- 0.25 | 75%
+/- 0.0 | 100%

To make it even more realistic you could change the trajectory based on timing. At -0.5 the kick would come out really low, maybe 15 degrees. At 0.0 it would be ideal at around 30 degrees. At 0.5 it would be a flutter ball at about 45 degrees. The resulting distance would be based on the angle of the kick, just as it is in real life.

I think in real life kickers tend to kick with the same power no matter the distance. With this in mind I think modifying the trajectory and not the power is more realistic. An added benefit is you could reward the defense with a much higher chance of a block if the player makes the mistake of kicking a low trajectory kick.

System using distance as a function of trajectory:
Timing (sec) | Trajectory (degrees) | Power (% of max):
-0.5 | 15 | 50%
-0.25 | 22 | 75%
0.0 | 30 | 100%
0.25 | 38 | 75%
0.5 | 45 | 50%

I'm not positive on the actual angles but hopefully it makes sense.

On a side note:
I believe there are 3 components that result in a quality kick:

1. Mental aim
2. Quality of execution of intended aim
3. quality of contact with regard to power

The proposed solution above doesn't take into consideration the quality of execution of the aim. What happens in real life is some kicks are shanked left or right, or the gradually hook or slice. To cover that you could replace the timed button press with a time movement upwards on the right stick.

[Ian_Cummings]

Quote: Originally Posted by likesbacon

Can it at least be tested out to see if it adds to the gameplay experience? IMO its just as important as arm strength, and accuracy because the longer a quarterbacks throwing motion the more time the defense has to sack him. Which is another reason strong arm QBs are so desired in the NFL. They have such great strength they can just see it and deliver without hesitation. Maybe it could work out that higher Throw Power translates to quicker release. Just a thought.

Madden 09 marks the first year of special deep pass animations...so we are definitely experimenting. You'll see him have to gather his feet and really wind up...they look awesome and I think they are a good balance. You'll have to be the judge when the game comes out though...

Quote: Originally Posted by likesbacon

As a side note; Has it ever been on the drawing board to make custom throwing motions for quarterbacks that throw side arm, like Vince Young?

Yes...it's definitely been on the board...every year since 06 I believe. Just low on the board unfortunately.

[Ian_Cummings]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sigma4Life

Accuracy: Kickers with high accuracy rating would get a longer arrow to aim. It's easier to aim with the longer arrow because you can better visualize where the kick will end up. Power: A kicker with a high power rating would be more forgiving in the timing of the button press that matches the foot-to-ball impact. I see it as a bell curve where the higher power rating results in a larger area under the curve. Lets say for example there is a 1 second timing window that goes from -0.5 to 0.5 seconds. Pressing the button at the 0.0 mark would result in the best possible kick. Pressing it at the -0.5 or 0.5 mark would result in the worst possible kick. The power could break down like this: Power based on timing of button press with foot-to-ball contact: Timing (sec) | Power (% of max): +/- 0.5 | 50% +/- 0.25 | 75% +/- 0.0 | 100% To make it even more realistic you could change the trajectory based on timing. At -0.5 the kick would come out really low, maybe 15 degrees. At 0.0 it would be ideal at around 30 degrees. At 0.5 it would be a flutter ball at about 45 degrees. The resulting distance would be based on the angle of the kick, just as it is in real life. I think in real life kickers tend to kick with the same power no matter the distance. With this in mind I think modifying the trajectory and not the power is more realistic. An added benefit is you could reward the defense with a much higher chance of a block if the player makes the mistake of kicking a low trajectory kick. System using distance as a function of trajectory: Timing (sec) | Trajectory (degrees) | Power (% of max): -0.5 | 15 | 50% -0.25 | 22 | 75% 0.0 | 30 | 100% 0.25 | 38 | 75% 0.5 | 45 | 50% I'm not positive on the actual angles but hopefully it makes sense. On a side note: I believe there are 3 components that result in a quality kick: Mental aim Quality of execution of intended aim quality of contact with regard to power The proposed solution above doesn't take into consideration the quality of execution of the aim. What happens in real life is some kicks are shanked left or right, or the gradually hook or slice. To cover that you could replace the timed button press with a time movement upwards on the right stick.

I wonder if we maybe we could just remove "aiming" altogether, and then modify the mechanics to just have 2 and 3 that you list above. If there's a strong wind from left to right, then you have to account for that in your 'execution' of the meter (i.e. push it left on your way up the meter). The accuracy rating would modify how much "give" you have when you are aiming, like maybe you have a larger 'sliver' to fit into.

[Sigma4Life]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheFuture15

I wonder if we maybe we could just remove "aiming" altogether, and then modify the mechanics to just have 2 and 3 that you list above. If there's a strong wind from left to right, then you have to account for that in your 'execution' of the meter (i.e. push it left on your way up the meter). The accuracy rating would modify how much "give" you have when you are aiming, like maybe you have a larger 'sliver' to fit into.

That's a great idea. Most kickers aim for the middle anyways. That removes the mundane aspect of aiming and gets the the meat of the issue, execution.

[icomb1ne]

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...w-kicking.html

That's my crude idea from way back when. Hopefully you can see what's going on since my diagrams are so bad.

[Joborule]

A new FG system doesn't necessarily need an overhaul I think, just fine tuning on the current system, or a little tweak.

The biggest problem with the kicking seem to be that accuracy is very forgiving on all levels. That shouldn't be the case, especially on All-Madden. If your goal is to be on line with where you're aiming the kick precisely, then you better get your kick aim on line or else there should be penalties. The more your aim is off, the more the kick is off target. The better your kicker accuracy is, the more margin for error you have (not that much of a difference on All-Madden, but it is easier to kick with a good kicker then a marginal kicker).

As for kick power, I think rather then waiting for the kick meter to fill up, it should work like a slingshot (or something like it). The quicker you pull back and push forward on the kick stick, the more force you put on the ball. The kicker here is instead of just pushing straight down then angle the stick up to where you aiming, you must move the stick down and up parallel in the direction you want to kick the ball. So for deep kicks, you gotta move the stick quick to get the deep kick power, while keeping your aim on target, which is more sensitive on deep kicks.

Here's some diagrams to better explain my method:


Thats the ideal kick meter for All-Madden.


And that's All-Pro.


Still same movement wise.


Here we have an accuracy range for a great kicker (accuracy wise) on All-Madden. The green region is a good kick. Orange is okay, but won't be precisely on target, especially if it's at the outer edges. Red is a bad kick. That's when your ball is gonna be off target. the goal is to remain in the green region during your kicking motions. That means if you pull back into the orange region, but hit into green, your still going to end up with an orange to red (bad) kick depending how awkward the bend in the motion was.

It's also important to note that even though your kick may be in a green region, if it's not directly center with the aim line, your kick is not 100% accurate. That's why if your on the outer regions of orange, it's not on target for the most part, and if you fly really off into the red, your kicking is heading off to left field.


For a decent kicker, it's harder to kick since the regions are skinnier.


When you move the primary aim, the accuracy follows along with it.

It's basically a tweak on the current system, and adjusting the forgiveness.