I think Madden deserves some slack.

[RealmK]

Quote: Originally Posted by IStillDoWhatIDo

People are bitter with madden simply because they built our trust and loyalty and when the bar got raised, they got lazy and didn't rise to the occassion. if madden wants people to stop complaining about the game and reliving the 2k glory days, then i have a solution: -create a game with SPECTACULAR presentation, pre-game show, halftime show, post game show, play by play, attractive sidelines, intelligent and attractive crowd, stat overlays, the whole kit and kaboodle. -perfect the gameplay and the pocket. perfect the franchise mode. give us a true online franchise. get ALL, I repeat, ALL new animations. THAT'S how you make people forget about 2k and stop complaining. SIMPLE

And do it all in a 10 month cycle! Yeah real simple. It makes me chuckle when people nitpick madden and say how great NFL 2k5 was in the same breath. Half of their gripes with Madden happen in NFL 2k5 as well yet its ok for some reason.

As far as 2k5's presentation, Yeah the half time/post game shows featuring The Swamii were pretty cool, but do people seriously enjoy the play by play itself? It always came off to me as absolutely hokey sounding and repeptitive as all hell.

[JMD]

I think the biggest reason why Madden gets bashed is because of the exclusive license. It's the only game in town if you want to play with the NFL teams and fans of other NFL games are now forced to play Madden or go without. If 2k and Microsoft were still putting out NFL 2k and NFL Fever games a lot of the Madden bashing would stop. I know I would no longer care if Madden was good or not, I'd have two other choices.

[Anim8or]

Quote: Originally Posted by callmetaternuts

I agree, they can get away with crazy stuff like OctoCamo, or running people over with no retribution. But Madden and NCAA are based off of things that we all watch and know.

That's so funny, we were just talking about this at work yesterday. When things don't work out for us we can't "extend swords 15 feet" and write a story to make it make sense, like God of War.

We have to keep things in the realm of reality but still be fun to play. 1 shot 1 kill not fun? Ok.. the shooters like Gears let your health recover over 30 seconds (after being shot....lol...), even the most realistic shooters still let you heal or pick up health packs, and let you respawn. Being sucked into blocks at the line not fun?? Well, if you are blitzing the line we still need to stop you most of the time... sorry.... Nano-Blitzes are even less fun....

I read things like "why don't these MORONS just do THIS... it's so obvious!" (when what they are suggesting would introduce some horrible imbalance that would totally kill the game). Or "where is that feature we all hated 3 years ago, why isn't it in the next gen game?" (because we had to rebuild the game for the new consoles.. Why do you think APF is no where near 2k5 even after 3 years of development? 16 years of features are not going to make it in and get tuned in a year, so we focused on the most important ones).

There is this notion that we do a lazy 40 hour week because of the "EA spouse" thing (the actual reality is we get food, and a week off after the projects end, and are encouraged not to work both weekend days over our 2-3 months in alpha... but when I get home before 8pm my wife is like "wow you are home early!")... California labor laws are quite different than Florida as well but no one is forced to work in games. I have been to every EA development studio, and I have never seen someone in production who wasn't insanely passionate about making the best games we can. We wouldn't do it otherwise. Even in LA and Redwood where they can't mandate the hours people still work them voluntarily. We are a deadline business and the best work you can do by the deadline means working long hours and being good at what you do. Not because you have to, because you are passionate about the work.

I am not that hard on the guys in the suits either, yes they answer to our stock holders, but those guys know that the best thing THEY can do is get us the resources we need to make great games, because that is what is selling well. Peter Moor's mandate to us is to raise the quality bar, because sales will come if we make better games.

The exclusive license did not in any way let us "relax". Now the NFL says only 1 company makes NFL football, if we lose Madden that would be bad, so we have to work harder now to keep that contract. We have to represent the NFL or we may lose the game. That was the NFL's call though, when 2K announced taking a year off, and dropped the price that's when the NFL decided to go exclusive (which we had to bid on and hold our breath to see if Madden still existed). I was at EA Canada when that happened, and it was scary for us to think we could lose football.. then MLB followed suit and we lost the bid on that one (even though we made the better game). There is this rumor that EA pushed the NFL, not the way I remember it at all...

Anyway thanks for the support, it does help us to know some of our fans can recognize that we don't "phone it in".

[spankdatazz22]

Quote: Originally Posted by RealmK

And do it all in a 10 month cycle! Yeah real simple. It makes me chuckle when people nitpick madden and say how great NFL 2k5 was in the same breath. Half of their gripes with Madden happen in NFL 2k5 as well yet its ok for some reason. As far as 2k5's presentation, Yeah the half time/post game shows featuring The Swamii were pretty cool, but do people seriously enjoy the play by play itself? It always came off to me as absolutely hokey sounding and repeptitive as all hell.

Imo EA's done more to enhance 2K5's legacy than the fans ever could. Look at the comparison you're trying to make - Madden to a 4yr old last gen dead in the water game. There should be flat-out no comparison. Yet there are many important gameplay facets that Madden can't compare to - and that's without extrapolating what NFL2K would've likely progressed to with a next gen NFL2K9. It's not just 2K5, the same thing can be done with Madden's last gen counterpart. I'm sure if there were a direct comparison of features/gameplay/value to Madden PS2, it'd be a close contest or the last gen game might win outright. That's pretty ridiculous to be saying 4-5 yrs into next gen. The fact that EA has NFL exclusivity makes it that much worse.

At one point people on this site worshipped at the alter of Inside Drive for basketball. There's no one pining for it's return at this point because games that have come after it have mostly satisfied people's desires. Same with MVP. If Madden were what it should be, it wouldn't get the criticism it does. Even if there were a much better NFL alternative out there, it wouldn't get the flack it does. If anything it's really not getting criticized as much as it should be, given the situation

[djep]

Quote: Originally Posted by Anim8or

That's so funny, we were just talking about this at work yesterday. When things don't work out for us we can't "extend swords 15 feet" and write a story to make it make sense, like God of War. We have to keep things in the realm of reality but still be fun to play. 1 shot 1 kill not fun? Ok.. the shooters like Gears let your health recover over 30 seconds (after being shot....lol...), even the most realistic shooters still let you heal or pick up health packs, and let you respawn. Being sucked into blocks at the line not fun?? Well, if you are blitzing the line we still need to stop you most of the time... sorry.... Nano-Blitzes are even less fun.... I read things like "why don't these MORONS just do THIS... it's so obvious!" (when what they are suggesting would introduce some horrible imbalance that would totally kill the game). Or "where is that feature we all hated 3 years ago, why isn't it in the next gen game?" (because we had to rebuild the game for the new consoles.. Why do you think APF is no where near 2k5 even after 3 years of development? 16 years of features are not going to make it in and get tuned in a year, so we focused on the most important ones). There is this notion that we do a lazy 40 hour week because of the "EA spouse" thing (the actual reality is we get food, and a week off after the projects end, and are encouraged not to work both weekend days over our 2-3 months in alpha... but when I get home before 8pm my wife is like "wow you are home early!")... California labor laws are quite different than Florida as well but no one is forced to work in games. I have been to every EA development studio, and I have never seen someone in production who wasn't insanely passionate about making the best games we can. We wouldn't do it otherwise. Even in LA and Redwood where they can't mandate the hours people still work them voluntarily. We are a deadline business and the best work you can do by the deadline means working long hours and being good at what you do. Not because you have to, because you are passionate about the work. I am not that hard on the guys in the suits either, yes they answer to our stock holders, but those guys know that the best thing THEY can do is get us the resources we need to make great games, because that is what is selling well. Peter Moor's mandate to us is to raise the quality bar, because sales will come if we make better games. The exclusive license did not in any way let us "relax". Now the NFL says only 1 company makes NFL football, if we lose Madden that would be bad, so we have to work harder now to keep that contract. We have to represent the NFL or we may lose the game. That was the NFL's call though, when 2K announced taking a year off, and dropped the price that's when the NFL decided to go exclusive (which we had to bid on and hold our breath to see if Madden still existed). I was at EA Canada when that happened, and it was scary for us to think we could lose football.. then MLB followed suit and we lost the bid on that one (even though we made the better game). There is this rumor that EA pushed the NFL, not the way I remember it at all... Anyway thanks for the support, it does help us to know some of our fans can recognize that we don't "phone it in".

That's interesting that you said the NFL approached EA about the exclusive license. I don't remember it going down that way at all. Did the NCAA do the same thing? How about the Arena Football League? All in the same year?

I'm sure you guys are working your tails off. I know many developers and those guys all look like they need a tan and some sleep. I take my hats off to you guys. But comparing the monstrous budget of the NFL-licensed Madden to APF, which was probably dead in the water until 18 months prior to release, is a stretch.

[Harlemal]

Quote: Originally Posted by Anim8or

That's so funny, we were just talking about this at work yesterday. When things don't work out for us we can't "extend swords 15 feet" and write a story to make it make sense, like God of War. We have to keep things in the realm of reality but still be fun to play. 1 shot 1 kill not fun? Ok.. the shooters like Gears let your health recover over 30 seconds (after being shot....lol...), even the most realistic shooters still let you heal or pick up health packs, and let you respawn. Being sucked into blocks at the line not fun?? Well, if you are blitzing the line we still need to stop you most of the time... sorry.... Nano-Blitzes are even less fun.... I read things like "why don't these MORONS just do THIS... it's so obvious!" (when what they are suggesting would introduce some horrible imbalance that would totally kill the game). Or "where is that feature we all hated 3 years ago, why isn't it in the next gen game?" (because we had to rebuild the game for the new consoles.. Why do you think APF is no where near 2k5 even after 3 years of development? 16 years of features are not going to make it in and get tuned in a year, so we focused on the most important ones). There is this notion that we do a lazy 40 hour week because of the "EA spouse" thing (the actual reality is we get food, and a week off after the projects end, and are encouraged not to work both weekend days over our 2-3 months in alpha... but when I get home before 8pm my wife is like "wow you are home early!")... California labor laws are quite different than Florida as well but no one is forced to work in games. I have been to every EA development studio, and I have never seen someone in production who wasn't insanely passionate about making the best games we can. We wouldn't do it otherwise. Even in LA and Redwood where they can't mandate the hours people still work them voluntarily. We are a deadline business and the best work you can do by the deadline means working long hours and being good at what you do. Not because you have to, because you are passionate about the work. I am not that hard on the guys in the suits either, yes they answer to our stock holders, but those guys know that the best thing THEY can do is get us the resources we need to make great games, because that is what is selling well. Peter Moor's mandate to us is to raise the quality bar, because sales will come if we make better games. The exclusive license did not in any way let us "relax". Now the NFL says only 1 company makes NFL football, if we lose Madden that would be bad, so we have to work harder now to keep that contract. We have to represent the NFL or we may lose the game. That was the NFL's call though, when 2K announced taking a year off, and dropped the price that's when the NFL decided to go exclusive (which we had to bid on and hold our breath to see if Madden still existed). I was at EA Canada when that happened, and it was scary for us to think we could lose football.. then MLB followed suit and we lost the bid on that one (even though we made the better game). There is this rumor that EA pushed the NFL, not the way I remember it at all... Anyway thanks for the support, it does help us to know some of our fans can recognize that we don't "phone it in".

Thanx Fam.

[Anim8or]

Quote: Originally Posted by djep

That's interesting that you said the NFL approached EA about the exclusive license. I don't remember it going down that way at all. Did the NCAA do the same thing? How about the Arena Football League? All in the same year? I'm sure you guys are working your tails off. I know many developers and those guys all look like they need a tan and some sleep. I take my hats off to you guys. But comparing the monstrous budget of the NFL-licensed Madden to APF, which was probably dead in the water until 18 months prior to release, is a stretch.

Like I said, I was at EA Canada when it went down, and there was huge internal panic about us losing the NFL contract, for a couple weeks it was a real possibility (at the time that would have meant very bad things for us as a whole.. Madden is a huge game for us). I know people like to romanticize it like we are this big horrible corporation, but we had to bid on the NFL license against all the other guys, and we came close to losing. (example, no NHL or NBA exclusive).. I don't know the story behind NCAA or Arena though.

I was making the comparison to APF to say that the console transition causes things to go backwards not forwards with titles that are 15 years in the works. To get things up and running with a new engine in a year is not easy (this console made us do that because of multi-threading, if you run non-multithreaded ps2 code on a Ps3 , it's actually slower than a current gen x-box). APF is no where near 2k5... why not?? Because it was their first shot at next gen title. Losing the NFL license didn't force them to pull out a ton of features. By the arguments I keep hearing, APF should have been at least a much better game than 2k5. Just not the case.

Anyway, the new consoles are like new PCs.. Slower processors, but more of them (in the case of PS3 A LOT more of them). This forced us to change a lot in how we do things. Took us time to recover from that, but I would say we are officially over the hump. I have played madden since version 1 when I was a kid, and I honestly do feel this is the best playing Madden I have played.

[adfletch71]

Quote: Originally Posted by Anim8or

Like I said, I was at EA Canada when it went down, and there was huge internal panic about us losing the NFL contract, for a couple weeks it was a real possibility (at the time that would have meant very bad things for us as a whole.. Madden is a huge game for us). I know people like to romanticize it like we are this big horrible corporation, but we had to bid on the NFL license against all the other guys, and we came close to losing. (example, no NHL or NBA exclusive).. I don't know the story behind NCAA or Arena though. I was making the comparison to APF to say that the console transition causes things to go backwards not forwards with titles that are 15 years in the works. To get things up and running with a new engine in a year is not easy (this console made us do that because of multi-threading, if you run non-multithreaded ps2 code on a Ps3 , it's actually slower than a current gen x-box). APF is no where near 2k5... why not?? Because it was their first shot at next gen title. Losing the NFL license didn't force them to pull out a ton of features. By the arguments I keep hearing, APF should have been at least a much better game than 2k5. Just not the case. Anyway, the new consoles are like new PCs.. Slower processors, but more of them (in the case of PS3 A LOT more of them). This forced us to change a lot in how we do things. Took us time to recover from that, but I would say we are officially over the hump. I have played madden since version 1 when I was a kid, and I honestly do feel this is the best playing Madden I have played.

So what are u guys doing about the little things we keep talking about? Half-time shows, sideline interaction like in allpro2k5, refs and chain gangs, true stats overlay like in 2k5. Can we be assured that EA is doing this in there upcoming madden titles. How long do we have to wait? Its been 4years now?