Playing Man is Useless

[notque]

Quote: Originally Posted by capp34

APF had legends that really were shutdown corners. 85% of the madden supposed to be shutdown corners are not shutdown corner in real life.

And that was the same in All Pro. Gold CBS were true shutdown corners that had problems with a Rice level WR (and Silver WRs to some extent)

Silver CBs had more problems with Gold, Silver WRs were better. etc.

The point wasn't that a shutdown corner was a shutdown corner, the point was that the CB play accurately delt with the WR play. And man and zone both work just fine.

It isn't to indicate 2k is better than Madden. All I'm saying is, There are solutions to the problem. One video game has them.

That's the point.

If you're really that hung up on it, I'll tell you a problem with 2k in this respect. The TE's are too good.

Because the guys in 2k actually are represented in height, a TE can just jump and catch over most people.

[Blazzen]

Zone and Man are better at stopping certain routes. You have to know what your opponent is after.

A cover 2 man with the two safeties over the top is great against long passes. Any kind of bomb or vertical passing game is best stopped with a cover 2 man defense as the safety typically picks up the deep guy to double cover him with the corner.

Zones are what stops the short slants, out routes and comeback routes. However, a zone can be beaten by a long bomb pass or vertical passing game (save for a prevent type zone of course) because if you throw it deep enough you'll typically have 1 v 1 coverage against whoevers the deep man in the zone. I can't count how many times I've air it out to Steve Smith against someone who sits in Cover 2 and Cover 3 zone all day.

Mix in some cover 1 robber as well for picking off the tight end passes over the middle. Just remember you're giving up an easy outside run and 1v1 on the WRs.

Most of defense is knowing what defense works good against what plays. THEN, you can apply that knowledge to your offensive game if you can read defenses and then you can audible to a play that will beat that kind of defense.

S T R A T E G Y

[notque]

We're not talking about strategy. I am aware of everything you said, and more about how defenses are supposed to operate.

I know enough about the Cover 2 it would take at least 30 minutes to discuss it all. That's not the point.

The point is, the game does not accurately portray the game properly in the pass game, so all the strategy in the world isn't going to make up for the fact that Linebackers jump way too high, catch way too difficult balls. That CBs jump way too high, bat down way too difficult balls.

That CBs and WRs both frame jump to make difficult catches, and difficult deflections.

If you have Champ Baily on Mike Williams in man to man. He should be so locked down, it isn't funny.

However, I can sit and complete 10 for 10 towards Mike Williams with Champ Baily covering him.

This is an indication that the CB WR play is wrong.

Okay, the next question is, how is it wrong, what needs to be corrected, and how can it be done.

All of these are relevant and interesting questions that have nothing to do with particular strategy.

Champ Baily on Mike Williams compared to Allpro2k would be Rod Woodson on a generic.

Rod Woodson would eat up a generic so bad it'd be funny. Champ Baily should be the same way on Mike Williams, and it's just not the case.

So there's a logic problem there.

Further, if you have Jerry Rice on a generic CB, the generic CB would be tore up.

This would be Randy Moss on, I don't know, Mike Rumph.

It isn't accurate in the game. It seems the game was written more in mind of correcting bugs in previous versions by over compensating as opposed to a redesign of pass coverage.

Pass coverage needs to be redesigned, much in the same way Running was redesigned this year.

[Captain Obvious]

they need to make the awareness rating mean something. for corners, the higher theyre rating, the more they will turn and look for the ball and shutdown his man. the less he has he will play the man and not the ball in fear of being beaten deep. you cant jump 15 feet in the air in full stride like these guys can in real life, thats why so many balls in real life are ove the shoulder of the reciever while the cb is trailing. if they can fix it then real strategy will come into play.

maybe roll over a safety to the crappy cbs side to help him out, but then the other side is open to attack. its as simple as that.

[crumpled_heap]

Quote: Originally Posted by notque

I know enough about the Cover 2 it would take at least 30 minutes to discuss it all.

The arrogance.....the haughtyness.....

[italianguy]

I play man and have no problem with it. Not sure what some of you are doing but you have to pass commit and pick the right plays. To me, Champ Bailey and the other great cb's do stick out.

[LBzrule]

I play man zone mixes. If I play regular man it's gonna be a blitz that I KNOW for a fact will be in the QB's face. As far as all pro, yeah, but don't forget the fade, post corner, corner post and the deep out routes that completely wrecked man coverage.

[cdon2k]

To "notque's" point, the issue is with the DB/WR interaction that Ian has indeed mentioned is problematic. This along with OL/DL interaction will be worked on for 2010.

As it currently stands, Tiberion can affect WR/DB interactions two ways:

1. WR/DB spacing, last year it was too close, this year it's too far away. It is a balance, and since there aren't in-depth WR/DB interactions (the game within the game as has been stated), they add or reduce space to make passing easier or harder. This is the primary way they adjust the passing game

2. WR/DB animations, due to the lack of mid route interaction, Tiberion tweaks the passing game mostly with end of play animations (swat, intercept animations). This year they locked down the end of the route by adding the super swat, reducing ints and taming the deep ball. It is due to this fact that the added spacing in the routes is the main mechanic in passing this year, thus making man coverage much less effective.

All that said, I am kinda sad that the lob seems useless again this year. Sure, you can have some success with streaks and whatnot, but corner routes are mostly bullet-lead instead of lobbed. Most people do this to take advantage of the added spacing this year.

I am hoping the current situation can be tweaked in a patch. Spacing needs to be a little tighter and swatting needs to be toned down some. Hopefully, this is possible via a patch.