Madden misses the mark again, constructive criticism attached

[PVarck31]

I just wanted to jump in here and give props to the OP and most of the other posters in this thread. you have given me ammo to use when trying to explain to someone how to constructively criticize a game.

A couple things I wanted to mention about the "future" of Madden. Pun intended. Ian is now the head guy. 2010 is his baby. Knowing what I know of Ian. I expect 2010 to blow most of us away. I say most because there will always be haters. I know for a fact he is so committed to satisfying us, it may be to a fault.

Ian wasn't even the lead guy on 09, and from what I understand he really didn't even have much to do with it at all. Yet look at what he got in the game for us. Just because of us, he improved gang tackling. Added the one return man play. Getting us Accel. Clock as DLC. Not to mention all the other stuff I can't even think of right now.

Now he is in charge. Just imagine what he is going to do with 2010. I have very high hopes and I do believe he will deliver. He knows exactly what we want and I think we are going to get it.

[Moegames]

Quote: Originally Posted by pjv31

I just wanted to jump in here and give props to the OP and most of the other posters in this thread. you have given me ammo to use when trying to explain to someone how to constructively criticize a game. A couple things I wanted to mention about the "future" of Madden. Pun intended. Ian is now the head guy. 2010 is his baby. Knowing what I know of Ian. I expect 2010 to blow most of us away. I say most because there will always be haters. I know for a fact he is so committed to satisfying us, it may be to a fault. Ian wasn't even the lead guy on 09, and from what I understand he really didn't even have much to do with it at all. Yet look at what he got in the game for us. Just because of us, he improved gang tackling. Added the one return man play. Getting us Accel. Clock as DLC. Not to mention all the other stuff I can't even think of right now. Now he is in charge. Just imagine what he is going to do with 2010. I have very high hopes and I do believe he will deliver. He knows exactly what we want and I think we are going to get it.

I really feel Ian will deliver too...infact i said pretty much what your saying about him in another post i replied to a few days ago..that ian got into madden09 late in the game..(meaning late in development cycle) ..therefor we should be stoked and hyped to see him come in after the game was released and make these patches happen like they have..i mean he litterly took our input and made the patches happen with his staff.. as i was saying in another thread..you dont see that kind of communication from developer to forum members too often where we actually have a "real" say so in what is put into gameplay elements of a videogame..as in this case, the current patch1 and the upcoming patch2/DLC, most of those changes in those patches are from us, us in Operation Sports Forums..that should put a smile on the face of every one of you guys at night just knowing that you helped make madden a better game this year..you really should feel good about that...i honestly dont think alot of you guys are seeing this but rather letting your own frustration cover up all the positives going on here...at first i was the same way but the more i see Ian and the rest being concerned and the more i know the whole story behind Madden09..the more im willing to let my frustrations go and just start enjoying madden09 for what its worth and look at madden2010 as something special to wait for.

So that right there is 'PROOF' that Ian "TheFuture" see's the light as we do..first and foremost..you can tell by just watching some of his video interviews online from various sites,etc that he's really a gamer just like you and I and most important, he has a "real' passion for videogaming..which to me is the key to a developer making a videogame..its just not a job you go to each day..its living the dream, having a real passion about something you do and love to do.. i just sense that about him even though i dont know the guy personally..but i feel only good things will come from him being the main man behind madden from now on..just look at what he helped get done AFTER the game launched retail...now just think about 2010.

I honestly feel we should just all stop the nagging after patch2 comes out and hopefully the DLC as well and let Ian and the rest of his crew get back to work and make Madden 2010 that special game we all been patiently waiting for..personally, this is coming for a pretty hardcore NFL2k guy..im quite content with madden09 as it is..with the added patch2 and DLC ...that will definately hold me down just fine until madden 2010. Of course im not saying madden09 is good as it is..far from it..im simply saying it's finally "just good enough" to hold a hardcore NFL2k5 guy down for a bit longer until 2010 comes out ..hopefully by then we'll see a Madden game plastered with life and atmosphere all over the place in that game...

[mexmarkjen]

Quote: Originally Posted by pjv31

I just wanted to jump in here and give props to the OP and most of the other posters in this thread. you have given me ammo to use when trying to explain to someone how to constructively criticize a game. A couple things I wanted to mention about the "future" of Madden. Pun intended. Ian is now the head guy. 2010 is his baby. Knowing what I know of Ian. I expect 2010 to blow most of us away. I say most because there will always be haters. I know for a fact he is so committed to satisfying us, it may be to a fault. Ian wasn't even the lead guy on 09, and from what I understand he really didn't even have much to do with it at all. Yet look at what he got in the game for us. Just because of us, he improved gang tackling. Added the one return man play. Getting us Accel. Clock as DLC. Not to mention all the other stuff I can't even think of right now. Now he is in charge. Just imagine what he is going to do with 2010. I have very high hopes and I do believe he will deliver. He knows exactly what we want and I think we are going to get it.

From what I've read in Ian's responses, etc. I must agree that 2010 may finally be the game. I am not a EA *****, I am not an EA lover. I LOVE FOOTBALL, like the rest of all of you. My playing days are long behind me, so I get my football fill watching on Sundays and playing Madden! Like the rest of you, I just want the game to be GREAT and COMPLETE. I don't doubt for one second that the teams of people at EA that work on Madden aren't hard working, diligent, committed and dedicated. But all that said, the game has not yet been great on next gen. Tonight I was playing the Eagles and the Cowboys. I punted and downed the ball at the Dallas 3 (I'm using the Eagles). Marion Barber rushes for about 8 yards and Hammonds says something along the lines of "what a great run, out to the 45!" What???? How does that even happen?

And what ever happened to the baseball infields we'd see in the September games in Oakland and Miami, when baseball was still being played. Then they'd disappear once October came. That was so cool. Or the weather report we'd get at kickoff.

It just seems that the small details are missing and they shouldn't be. That's what would make the game so much more complete and so much more enjoyable. And I agree with many of the posters about the atmosphere - the crowd is just DEAD in this game.

These are gripes or complaints. This isn't coming from some crazy whiner. These are facts; they are. And that's fine as long as EA can commit the teams of people who work on Madden to fix them, to make the game great.

The game is good. It's not great. It needs to be great. The football gaming community deserves a GREAT COMPLETE GAME.

Perhaps a new tagline for next season all -

EA SPORTS - It's in the game, and it's GREAT.

[rckabillyRaider]

Madden needs the immersion factor. I went back to playing NCAA 09 after the 2nd patch and I am loving it! Though it can use work itself, that game has way better presentation, atmosphere, and immersion than Madden does. The crowds are a lot more lively, the announcers are better and a bit less repetitive, the dynamic attendance feature which I just noticed, is really cool. It really makes me want to keep coming back to play more. But Madden just has no life to it. It doesn't have that power that some games have that make you keep coming back. So if Madden 2010 has super presentation and atmosphere and includes a bunch of little details, and improve some aspects of gameplay, it would be the best ever and finally take over 2k5.

[Ian_Cummings]

Quote: Originally Posted by mexmarkjen

I am frustrated with Madden. Not Madden 09, or 08 or 07 - but with all of the Madden's on the next gen systems. It seems to me that while the firepower with technology is there, the core of the game play has gone backwards. Visually, the game is beautiful this year. The animations are terrific and the player models are much improved. The interface on the play call menu is a vast improvement. But the game irks me. And I'm not talking about the fact that I'm struggling with my running game. Specifically, I find the following completely unacceptable - * CPU AI. The CPU drives to my 31 yard line and I hold them. Yet, they PUNT. No FG attempt; they punt. Unless the snow was falling and the wind was stiff in your face; an NFL team would never punt. To make matters worse, the punter booms it out of the endzone (as they always do; the CPU never pins me inside the 10) and the commentary "congratulates" the punter for such a bomb of a punt. It was net 11 yards! This has been happening for years and it never gets fixed. * FG kicking; again way too easy. Why in the world can't this be tuned in the following manner - give the kickers attributes for distance and clutchness. Your kick meter is different for anything inside 40 yards; easier. From 40 out, it gets harder and it gets really hard from 50, and exceptionally hard from 55. And the weather needs to impact the kicks more often. Is it too much to ask that the PUNTER is the HOLDER on FG's, not the backup QB. 99% of the time it is someone other than the backup QB who holds for kicks. * Kickoffs - why can't I squib it if I want to? Why can't I have a kick return left or right? I can only return up the middle or recover an onside? * Weather - it needs to impact the game. It doesn't. It needs to for kicks, throwing, running and catching. * Home Field Advantage - it exists in SOME NFL stadiums; it needs to be part of the game. * Atmosphere - It just doesn't grab you; it should. And of course the playoffs and Super Bowl need a lot of help. * QB ratings - is it asking too much to give ratings to QB in some simple areas such as SHORT PASS, MEDIUM PASS, LONG PASS, etc. Is it too much to ask that any given QB has strenghts and weaknesses in these very basic categories? Shouldn't that be reflected? * Playbooks - I might be getting crazy in my old age, but it seems like there are less plays this year and they all seem to be the same for the most part from team to team. Why not give me the option to put "packages" of plays in from game to game. Let me choose short pass plays, long pass plays, medium pass plays, screens, all the running plays, and even include a package of TRICK PLAYS. * Accelerated clock and in-game saves- put them back in the game! And while you're at it, let's see some helmets fly off with a perfect hit stick! * Injuries - DON'T TELL ME IMMEDIATELY. Let a few plays go by and swing it down to a sideline reporter (you would have to put one back in the game) to give me a report about the injury EA SPORTS - I am a loyal customer; I've bought Madden for a long long time. I buy it every year, along with Tiger Woods (I have some constructive criticism for that game too); I only buy the sports games. You all need to honor your words of "It's in the game" and (a) put ALL of the features back in the game that have been there in the past (I want to assign my best DB to cover T.O) and (b) innovate more. I think Madden 09 is good. And friends, this disappoints me. Why? Because is should be great. It needs to be great. It isn't.

Great post mexmarkjen.

[jeetaa6]

i was actually tempted to maybe pick the game up post patch, until reading this thread.
i'll pass this year.

but in the spirit of being kind to EA and not dissing them as we see in other threads, i'll just say "Golly gee, EA, nice try again this year. Tell the guys in the Testing and Quality Assurance department that if they apply themselves this coming year, I know that next year's Madden will be yet another step forward in this challenging trek towards capturing greatness. As a kind suggestion, perhaps seek out ex-Visual Concepts pigskin employees for consultation within your 2010 journey. From what I've heard, they won't have much to do this coming year anyway".

[Matt10]

Great post by the OP - nothing needs to be added.

What I will say though is that sometimes I feel hopeless with EA. They have no competition, why do they need to improve the game for the hardcore gamer? I mean honestly, why should they even care, why should they put in more work for a game that is already going to sell like hotcakes anyway.

Madden 2005 was a great game because of NFL 2k5, everyone loved it and it pleased the hardcore gamers (couple of small bugs) - since then....

I really want to believe in EA again, but it's just at the point where nothing surprises me about them, kinda sucks - but my $60 was well spent on a decent EA game, not a great football one though.

[LAKE4742]

Here's the thing:
Some developers would be considered more talented than others at makin' games today-exploitin' the hardware, pushin' the limits, and yes, makin' more visceral and life-like experiences. Some might even say that some gamers today are spoiled because of this, and expect the same "futuristic realism" from all games now. Could be considered a good OR bad thing-mostly depending on if you're 13 or 30 years old.
For example, some studios like.....EPIC (Gears of War) or Infinty Ward (Call of Duty 4) get lots of media attention just like EA. And they talk about their products with the same hype and passion, and you can tell they play their own games ALOT. Because they instantly spot the problems, just the same as those complainin'. The difference is: They address the issues immediately. No ifs, no buts, no ignorin' important details, no breakin' somethin' to fix somethin' else, and most importantly, no addin' a bunch of new stuff when the core gameplay and experience is not whole, representative, or technically sound of the main vision or goal yet.
Yes, some developers are more talented than others. And what's fun to to one may not be considered fun to another. But what's important is that the game represents its inspiration with accuracy and detail. Some games have more breathin' room with this logic because the vision is their own-a totally new world, somethin' we've never seen before. Simulations have a different kind of responsibility. And when you buy the exclusive rights to the NFL license, most gamers are gonna expect the most complete and accurate NFL experience-why not?!
Askin' for accuracy and detail is not forgettin' why we play games. As a matter of fact, they're some of the biggest reasons we ARE gamers. More importantly, they're some of the biggest reasons we love sports games. Sim games are supposed to reflect reality, and give gamers the ability to play that reality. Arcade games are for fun, sim games are for realism, period.
Some sports devs think gamers aren't ready for a real sim sports game. Why not?! Has there ever been a true sports sim game, anyway.....besides NFL2K5?!!! It was even more understandable and accepted last gen and previous years (to not have a true sports sim game), because the technology wasn't where it's at today. But TODAY, there is NO excuse! The tech, hardware, software-all are advanced and capable enough to fully display a real sim sports experience. Even more so if the experience is purely focused on the game itself and NOT on marketing gimmicks and features.


Other genres of games have easily surpassed sports games in every category from graphics to gameplay to innovation. Madden is nowhere close to the experience it should be by now, period-especially with such good strides made last gen.
Competition is the best tool for motivation. And sports lovers eagerly await some competition to not only again motivate EA, but to continue to push the industry in a positive and innovative direction. And hopefully, other devs will not only care about their competition, but also keep in mind the ones who love (and invest in) this hobby greatly. Keepin' in mind the "hardcore" gamers willing to even help by givin' them feedback and ideas and posting on the net in effort to make the games and industry better.