Fixing the Dline Part I - Line Stunts and Aiming Points/Charges

[tonynyy]

Since last night at 1 AM, I've thought about the different pass rush styles isea, and I've thought about an idea on improving it.

First, there could be the 3 styles (finesse, balanced, power), and based on the scheme/technique, different animations would kick in.

In the 4-3, D-Linemen attack half-bodies, so they target either the inside or outside shoulder of the O-Linemen. In Madden, D-Linemen in the 4-3 should have animations geared towards penetrating the backfield.

In the 3-4, D-Linemen take the O-linemen head on, because they have 2 gaps to defend. In the game, these linemen should have animations allowing them to control the O-Linemen and taking on double teams (BTW these NEED to be in the game).

[Ian_Cummings]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sigma4Life

I agree. They need totally different mo-cap for each type of rusher. Also, it doesn't look like true double team blocking is gonna be added since there's not 2 offensive linemen in the mo-cap session.

We will easily be able to have our 4 guys emulate the different styles. 3 of our 4 of our folks on the blocking day will be more on the "finesse" side which is the way we want it...it's much easier to get a fast guy to emulate a slow/strong one in mocap. This video showcases a little bit of how Kenny can emulate a bunch of different players on offense...the same goes on defense.



Double teams are not out of the question either, like I said we'll have 4 people that day so there's nothing to prevent us from having the OL and FB "pretend" to be linemen.

My main point is don't get worried here. Mocap is a science and the one thing I've learned working on these shoots for 5+ years is that you don't have to have EVERY player type...there are mocap talent that can emulate them all. Remember, the animations play back on any skeleton...so their size doesn't matter in the slightest.

[BrianFifaFan]

That video was hot. Also, you have no arm! Seriously, that was cool as heck. It's neat how he can mimick so many guys playstyles.....

[gabs485]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheFuture15

We will easily be able to have our 4 guys emulate the different styles. 3 of our 4 of our folks on the blocking day will be more on the "finesse" side which is the way we want it...it's much easier to get a fast guy to emulate a slow/strong one in mocap. This video showcases a little bit of how Kenny can emulate a bunch of different players on offense...the same goes on defense. Double teams are not out of the question either, like I said we'll have 4 people that day so there's nothing to prevent us from having the OL and FB "pretend" to be linemen. My main point is don't get worried here. Mocap is a science and the one thing I've learned working on these shoots for 5+ years is that you don't have to have EVERY player type...there are mocap talent that can emulate them all. Remember, the animations play back on any skeleton...so their size doesn't matter in the slightest.

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That was a cool video. One question. Does that mean that lace w:st="on">Chadlace> and Smith have specific animations in madden?
Also I haven’t seen any of those catches in this year's games.


In my opinion Madden 09 is the best madden ever. It's at least challenging. The thing with video games is that eventually you'll be able to beat the AI easily and in sports that doesn’t happen. With this adaptive AI it's really a step forward to keeping games challenging.

In my opinion ratings you have more effect than stick skill with play selection having a bit part of how successful you might be. AI play selection is no where near where it should be. I'm not a football expert and I can tell that the AI calls the wrong plays at the wrong times. The basic stuff, putting instead of kicking a field goal, calling passing plays when having the lead in the 4th quarter, etc.

Ian I'm probably the only guy here not from the USA. I don’t even know anyone that plays Madden in my country. I don’t play online so all I do is play against the AI. And I've having fun with this years Madden. But please along with OL/DL interaction, AI play calling should be the top priorities.

Also the awareness is what makes sets apart good role players from great players. There are some many gifted athletes in the NFL but they just can play because they are smart about football. Running good routes doesn’t mean follow the design play pattern like I guess it means now in Madden, it means the receiver is great reading the defences and getting in the spots between the defenders where Qbs can get them the ball. I hate when there's a open spot in the defence and my receiver just follows the design not being aware of this. This is what sets players apart.

Some other stuff that I thing should be implemented in next years madden are:

Improve DB/WR play: In the NFL most of the pass interference penalties are called because DBs use they're hands improperly. We don't have this in Madden. There should be a grabbing button for both DB/WR with a risk/reward factor while running the routes. Great DB/WR will use there hands and get away with some grabbing. The grabbing button could be the same as the swat button but swatting will be used when the ball is reaching the receiver. You are smart guys add this and balance it out with the factors of ratings and timing.>>
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Improve passing: It seams that in Madden incompletions are either interception/drops/swats while in NFL most of them are bad missed throws that hit the turf. Overthrows and under throws that miss both receivers and defenders. You kind of have this in this years version with lead passing but not well implemented. It should be way more pressure sensitive.>>
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Well that’s my 2 cents. >>
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Also the cosmetic part of the game should be improve>>
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Different shoes and shoe colours>>
Different socks size – You have this in the NCAA,. I hate that all my players have their socks middle up. It looks lame!!! >>
Celebrations!! The scorer you have a specific celebration like now but also after he celebrates it will be nice and real of having his team mates going up to congratulate him!! >>
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[burne]

Is it just me or is the field in the mo-cap studio just too small to record realistic animations, just since it doesn't seem like he can ever really get to full speed in the recordings. Also, and this is based on the limited number of catches in the video, the catches seem to be recorded by having Kenny catch really soft close-range passes. I mean, you gotta record him catching hard bullets running full-speed. All of the existing next-gen catch anims just look either casual and slow, or bizarre (I could post videos of which ones really offend me, if you don't know what I'm talking about), and I'm beginning to see why.

I don't mean to just bash the game and the catch animations, I'm just curious whether heading into the mo-cap sessions and animation design for next year, the new Madden designers agree and are aware of these issues, or if they think the current catch animations represent NFL football well.

[BrianFifaFan]

Quote: Originally Posted by burne

Is it just me or is the field in the mo-cap studio just too small to record realistic animations, just since it doesn't seem like he can ever really get to full speed in the recordings. Also, and this is based on the limited number of catches in the video, the catches seem to be recorded by having Kenny catch really soft close-range passes. I mean, you gotta record him catching hard bullets running full-speed. All of the existing next-gen catch anims just look either casual and slow, or bizarre (I could post videos of which ones really offend me, if you don't know what I'm talking about). I don't mean to just bash the game and the catch animations, I'm just curious whether heading into the mo-cap sessions and animation design for next year, the new Madden designers agree and are aware of these issues, or if they think the current catch animations represent NFL football well.

You've gotta understand how the whole mo-cap process works. You can't just go out on a football field and shoot someone. There's a lot of capturing equipment that gets data off of the funny ping-pong ball suit. And from my understanding, EA has about the best mo-cap stuff around. Maybe you should ask Ian to explain it more fully......

[Ian_Cummings]

Quote: Originally Posted by burne

Is it just me or is the field in the mo-cap studio just too small to record realistic animations, just since it doesn't seem like he can ever really get to full speed in the recordings. Also, and this is based on the limited number of catches in the video, the catches seem to be recorded by having Kenny catch really soft close-range passes. I mean, you gotta record him catching hard bullets running full-speed. All of the existing next-gen catch anims just look either casual and slow, or bizarre (I could post videos of which ones really offend me, if you don't know what I'm talking about), and I'm beginning to see why. I don't mean to just bash the game and the catch animations, I'm just curious whether heading into the mo-cap sessions and animation design for next year, the new Madden designers agree and are aware of these issues, or if they think the current catch animations represent NFL football well.

To answer two posts with one...
- The shots Kenny did were basically for this CBS special. I.e. a "PR" shoot. In "real" shoots, we use a ball launcher and crank it up quite a bit. To gabs485, that's also why these catches aren't in the game.
- The new mocap space is actually quite large and can handle "game-speed" animations quite well. We actually have the biggest mocap studio in the world I believe. I agree that there are a lot of catches that don't look full speed, but those animations are all kind of old (that's why you see we have a day dedicated to re-freshing that library).

So, yes, I agree that we need better catch animations (and a lot of other areas too). To clarify, neither of your concerns from the video are worth worrying about...they are non-issues.

[K_GUN]

cool vid ian


I have to say..it's so cool to be allowed to start down the path of the dev cycle for a video game...

a first if i recall

thx for the access Ian