AGREE/DISAGREE: Scrap Madden 2010, start fresh with "Madden NFL Football"

[Ian_Cummings]

Quote: Originally Posted by BIG CAROLINA

#4. MONEY. Lets keep it real here. Should be #1,but I know you can't say that here.

As much as you may want to think that, it's just untrue at the level of the design team. Sure, at the top of the chain, this is a business, but not once does it enter my mind on how to make more money. What is 100% on my brain is making a great game. The money thing will always work itself out.

[RAZRr1275]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheFuture15

DISAGREE (I get to vote right?) I don't want to scrap the first version that I get to design Here's some reasoning behind my vote: #1 (and really the only reason needed). Madden CAN'T take a year off due to licensing restrictions. #2. If Madden 2010 was only a roster update with a promise of a better 2011, I think the majority of this forum would be up in arms, and you guys would be the ONLY ones that would even be remotely forgiving. Expect every review to be in the toilet, expect a PR nightmare, and expect all the rest of the non-forum fans to be extremely upset. A major gaffe like that could easily be the death of the franchise and the last version of Madden ever (though I don't know if that would bother some of the folks lurking around here). #3. As a few people have said, as I've been working on the planning process for 2010, I honestly don't think that the one year cycle is truly the biggest issue, nor has it been. It's tough to make MASSIVE changes obviously, but IMO, it's all about design direction - the last 3 years of design direction (I don't count 06) haven't melded with what you all really want out of Madden. The good news is that the Madden 2010 design team follows a design direction that is MUCH closer to yours. We definitely shook things up a bit - there isn't a single designer on my team that was on the 07, 08, or 09 teams. It's tough to make a game that pleases millions of people, varying from 10 year old kids that are just picking it up for the first time to folks like the ones on these forums that pick apart every single detail and are frustrated when defensive linemen don't have correct aiming points. No matter what, there will be complaints out there...and I've realized that. In other words, we'll never be able to stop making the game better. As I've said before though, the reason EA Sports (not just Madden) is on the map is because it broke through with games that were extremely realistic, especially for the time. I really didn't know a thing about the NHL or NFL at age 12 when I got my first EA Sports games, and they started teaching me everything about the real sports. That's still the design mindset I have (along with Phil and many others that are now on the design team) - a game can be realistic and fun, and fans of the sport will actually pick up the details and make them into much bigger / life-long fans.

I can't wait for 2010. Hope NCAA is going to be just as great.

[BrianFifaFan]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheFuture15

As much as you may want to think that, it's just untrue at the level of the design team. Sure, at the top of the chain, this is a business, but not once does it enter my mind on how to make more money. What is 100% on my brain is making a great game. The money thing will always work itself out.

I'm happy that you addressed this. Unless you are in a commissary job or a business owner, the money is pretty much what it is from your perspective. You might get a bonus from doing an exceptional job, but still that is dictated by your putting out the best product possible. There's still this mindset where the rank and file of EA/Tiburon are in complicity with upper corporate leadership to cut corners and give substandard product to maximize profitablity. You're a worker bee, just like us. A persons whos' legacy is Madden, not the stock value. I'm glad they have a guy like you at the helm, Ian......

[BIG CAROLINA]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheFuture15

As much as you may want to think that, it's just untrue at the level of the design team. Sure, at the top of the chain, this is a business, but not once does it enter my mind on how to make more money. What is 100% on my brain is making a great game. The money thing will always work itself out.

They are the people that I am referring too. Not taking a shot at you, but Madden getting scrapped for a year would never happen (even if it were possible).
Just for the record I am one of the one's enjoying the game.

[MJenness]

Quote: Originally Posted by BrianFifaFan

I'm happy that you addressed this. Unless you are in a commissary job or a business owner, the money is pretty much what it is from your perspective. You might get a bonus from doing an exceptional job, but still that is dictated by your putting out the best product possible. There's still this mindset where the rank and file of EA/Tiburon are in complicity with upper corporate leadership to cut corners and give substandard product to maximize profitablity. You're a worker bee, just like us. A persons whos' legacy is Madden, not the stock value. I'm glad they have a guy like you at the helm, Ian......

Good points, but Ian (and his devs) are also required to stay within budget guidelines (i.e.- payroll hours allocated, etc.) which MAY well explain some of the problems in recent years. I've worked in business management most of my adult life, and in EVERY business experience, the corporate big-wigs are under constant pressure to "trim the fat" which basically amounts to getting more productivity out of less people at less cost. And the end result USUALLY ends up being at the cost of quality and customer service\satisfaction. It is the inevitable "evil" of big business. The people who write Ian's checks are mainly looking at the 'bottom line", which is exactly what their jobs entail.

[BIG CAROLINA]

Quote: Originally Posted by MJenness

Good points, but Ian (and his devs) are also required to stay within budget guidelines (i.e.- payroll hours allocated, etc.) which MAY well explain some of the problems in recent years. I've worked in business management most of my adult life, and in EVERY business experience, the corporate big-wigs are under constant pressure to "trim the fat" which basically amounts to getting more productivity out of less people at less cost. And the end result USUALLY ends up being at the cost of quality and customer service\satisfaction. It is the inevitable "evil" of big business. The people who write Ian's checks are mainly looking at the 'bottom line", which is exactly what their jobs entail.

That is my point about exactly as to why it will never get scrapped for a year.

[NYGmen56]

You could only hope and pray...

But I don't think even that would make a difference.

Ian & Co. know that the top people who do have a say in everything would be like, "what? why we would we do that, we are making enough money just the way it is, why change" just fix add a couple more gimmicks and walla a new game! Why do you thing they have the same game engine since like 2000?? We ALL know Madden game engine needs a change, but we are asking for the impossible..

[Jetpac]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheFuture15

DISAGREE (I get to vote right?) I don't want to scrap the first version that I get to design Here's some reasoning behind my vote: #1 (and really the only reason needed). Madden CAN'T take a year off due to licensing restrictions. #2. If Madden 2010 was only a roster update with a promise of a better 2011, I think the majority of this forum would be up in arms, and you guys would be the ONLY ones that would even be remotely forgiving. Expect every review to be in the toilet, expect a PR nightmare, and expect all the rest of the non-forum fans to be extremely upset. A major gaffe like that could easily be the death of the franchise and the last version of Madden ever (though I don't know if that would bother some of the folks lurking around here). #3. As a few people have said, as I've been working on the planning process for 2010, I honestly don't think that the one year cycle is truly the biggest issue, nor has it been. It's tough to make MASSIVE changes obviously, but IMO, it's all about design direction - the last 3 years of design direction (I don't count 06) haven't melded with what you all really want out of Madden. The good news is that the Madden 2010 design team follows a design direction that is MUCH closer to yours. We definitely shook things up a bit - there isn't a single designer on my team that was on the 07, 08, or 09 teams. It's tough to make a game that pleases millions of people, varying from 10 year old kids that are just picking it up for the first time to folks like the ones on these forums that pick apart every single detail and are frustrated when defensive linemen don't have correct aiming points. No matter what, there will be complaints out there...and I've realized that. In other words, we'll never be able to stop making the game better. As I've said before though, the reason EA Sports (not just Madden) is on the map is because it broke through with games that were extremely realistic, especially for the time. I really didn't know a thing about the NHL or NFL at age 12 when I got my first EA Sports games, and they started teaching me everything about the real sports. That's still the design mindset I have (along with Phil and many others that are now on the design team) - a game can be realistic and fun, and fans of the sport will actually pick up the details and make them into much bigger / life-long fans.

IAN (This is the Thread Starter speaking) I am very pleased with your responce. I bolded the part in quote to basically say THANK GOD. Understand that NFL Football means alot to myself as well as many around these forums and we do expect a product that (after 5 years sould EASILY surpass NFL2k5 - Again I am not comparing just saying).

I remember watching a video interview with the lead designer of Madden NFL 2007 - the guy was going on and on about this new "Ring" feature. Like WHO REALLY cares about a RING? I Remeber thinking, so were the heck is the atomosphere? Stat overlays? Realistic Play-by-play? Refs? Chain Gang? Engaging and realistic NFL Draft? Ability to trade future draft picks.. hell a REAL franchise? Where is the crowd noise, screen shaking and controller rumbling on 3rd and short with 2 min left in the game at away stadiums... Where the heck is the presentation? Why does my quater back karate kick after ever pass? - I mean, I was extremely upset that this guy was going on and on and on about a RING feature.

But I digress - I do feel (for the first time EVER) that next years Madden will be incredible (thanks in part to your efforts and what I've been told about your team). And thank you for your responce. I want to see Madden surpass where NFL2k5 left off and where NBA 2k and NHL 09 is currently.


I believe.

NOW MAKE IT HAPPEN!