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Old 10-09-2008, 11:17 PM   #33
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Re: Madden has along way to go

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Originally Posted by TheWatcher
Just remember that with more characters on the sidelines, and more AI resources going to them for reactive animations, you lose things that are more important. More graphical resources there mean less on the field (Just look at how crappy the fields and stadiums looked in APF which had all of things the OP talked about).

In my opinion, the sidelines just need to look believeable, which to me this year they were good enough they just missed the opportunity of having the Head Coaches presence. Trust me, if they increase the sidelines and decrease on the field of play you'll see a mound of complaints and rightfully so.

I actually think they need to decrease the number of characters outside the field of play, bring the head coaches back, and use dynamic cutscenes like 2K5 did in order to drop in a stronger sideline presence.

As far as presentation, I think Madden is being held back by timing and understanding when, where and how to use overlays and post-play camera angles. For example:

*"Drive update" overlays aren't useful, they should be replaced with player stat overlays. Give me a drive summary after a score has been made, but don't update me 4 times during one drive.

*Ring builder stat overlays... ummmmmm... no. And I don't wanna see an overlay about my player record unless I'm playing online and even then I'm not sure I want to see it. It's just useless information that has nothing valuable to add to the game that I'm in the middle of playing.

*Post play camera's... you have to treat plays as if they're important. At no time should a sack happen and the camera doesn't closely spotlight the playmaker(s). At no time should any big play result in a camera drifting away from the field. At no point should a TD scoring player be given a far-away camera shot. These playmakers should always be framed and/or given a closeup when appropriate.

Believe it or not, things like that make a big difference to presentation quality. They tried to get too cute with the post-play camera's and stat overlays and wound up doing some things that just don't jive. See what they have to understand is that football is a big TV sport. When you set out to do a game that's supposed to have broadcast elements, you can't do things that would seem strange to the people who are strongly familiar with how it's presented on TV... which unfortunately is like 100% of the audience that buys Madden, lol.

All they gotta do is a watch a few TV broadcasts and copy the style. That's all I think people have been asking for... I don't think it's asking too much at all.
2ksports has never been a graphics guru.

Madden player models,field,stadiums, etc are fine as is right now no need to touch them..

We are on 360 and PS3 not Xbox and PS2...You know that the Madden graphics will improve next year because every sports game graphics improves year to year...

The sidelines don't have to be very detailed but just there and into the game with reactions according to the game
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Old 10-10-2008, 08:38 AM   #34
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Re: Madden has along way to go

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Originally Posted by NBA2k8 CHAMP
2ksports has never been a graphics guru.
I strongly disagree. Although EA has closed the gap in this generation, 2K football was in my opinion graphically head and shoulders above Madden for the entire XBOX/PS2 generation, with NFL 2K5 being the crescendo. Madden's player models were deplorable, and even with 2K5's somewhat short arms it's overall parts were still far ahead of Madden's overall.

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Originally Posted by NBA2k8 CHAMP
Madden player models,field,stadiums, etc are fine as is right now no need to touch them..
Are they best ever? Yes. But can improvements still be made? Of course.

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Originally Posted by NBA2k8 CHAMP
We are on 360 and PS3 not Xbox and PS2...You know that the Madden graphics will improve next year because every sports game graphics improves year to year...
Except that Madden's graphics got worse from '07 to '08, and Madden's graphics were a joke for the entire XBOX/PS2 generation.


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Originally Posted by NBA2k8 CHAMP
The sidelines don't have to be very detailed but just there and into the game with reactions according to the game
Still, the more you allot to that, the more you take away from more important parts.
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Old 10-10-2008, 09:32 AM   #35
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Re: Madden has along way to go

Ea sports has the capability of releasing a really good game.

Take a look at FIFA 09.

Why the hell does't madden look like that.

Be it as it may, soccer is way more popular than football, but cmon, America's favourite sport. It should be a lot better than it is.

And soccer is as complex if not more complex than football.

Arcade gameplay is a copout for laziness. Its easier to program arcade than it is to program realism.
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Old 10-10-2008, 10:59 AM   #36
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Re: Madden has along way to go

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Originally Posted by TheWatcher
I strongly disagree. Although EA has closed the gap in this generation, 2K football was in my opinion graphically head and shoulders above Madden for the entire XBOX/PS2 generation, with NFL 2K5 being the crescendo. Madden's player models were deplorable, and even with 2K5's somewhat short arms it's overall parts were still far ahead of Madden's overall.

Nfl 2k5 was a good looking game but still 2ksports isn't known for graphics it's known for gameplay.



Are they best ever? Yes. But can improvements still be made? Of course.

That's exactly my point..They don't need to be touched for 2010 they should focus on adding interactive sidelines,presentation,more people around the field,crowd,gameplay,etc... The graphics is the least of they're worries and once you add them you'll be able to appreciate the graphics more



Except that Madden's graphics got worse from '07 to '08, and Madden's graphics were a joke for the entire XBOX/PS2 generation.

I don't think so but that's YOUR opinion




Still, the more you allot to that, the more you take away from more important parts.

Not really..Like said we are using PS3 and 360's online shooters are use to having 40-50 players online and big explosions and so on IT CAN BE DONE.
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Old 10-10-2008, 11:49 AM   #37
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Re: Madden has along way to go

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Originally Posted by NBA2k8 CHAMP

Nfl 2k5 was a good looking game but still 2ksports isn't known for graphics it's known for gameplay.
In my opinion, I think they've always been known for both. The critics certainly seemed to think so too, not that I put a whole lot of stock in what mag critics say but still.

Until this generation, I can't think of any sports game that rivaled 2K's offerings graphically. Gameplay is debatable for different games, but I thought 2K football was more fun to play until All Pro which was a total disaster.


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Originally Posted by NBA2k8 CHAMP
That's exactly my point..They don't need to be touched for 2010 they should focus on adding interactive sidelines,presentation,more people around the field,crowd,gameplay,etc... The graphics is the least of they're worries and once you add them you'll be able to appreciate the graphics more
But you're dismissing what those things will do to the overall picture. More characters (graphical resources), more interaction (AI resources) means a hit to the other parts. I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice to have, but at the expense of what happens on the field? It would be a big mistake. They had trouble getting AI for the refs into the game when it was at 30 frames so we didn't get refs, and even more at 60 and so we of course still don't have them. Adding interactive sidelines will mean an even bigger AI challenge, and that's going to mean cuts someplace else.


I said: Except that Madden's graphics got worse from '07 to '08, and Madden's graphics were a joke for the entire XBOX/PS2 generation.

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Originally Posted by NBA2k8 CHAMP
I don't think so but that's YOUR opinion
A few things here... just an FYI, it's not just MY opinion. Aside from it being a pretty widely held opinion, it also happens to be Phil Frazier's opinion as well, as he posted over on the EA boards clearly stating that the graphics in Madden '08 were not very good (I read it myself). And he was right, and I appreciate his honesty. The graphics were not up to par. But they did a great job with 09 so they redeemed themselves quite nicely.

Also, while how good graphics look can be a subjective matter, the technical aspect is not. It cannot be disputed that Madden 06 and 07 carried more poly's and greater texture/detail than Madden '08. Even if you didn't know it was a fact, just looking at both games side by side would make it obvious that '08's counts were definitely down.

Madden '07 had 3D grass, Madden '08 did not (and I'm not a fan of 3D grass by the way, I don't think it's sensible). Madden '08 also did not have progressive/dynamic lighting. Those are simply facts, so the bottom line is that '08 did indeed go backwards graphically, overall. Now, it can be argued that the player models had better proportions in '08, but that's all that can really be claimed from a technical standpoint. Now if a person likes those backwards-going graphics, more power to'em. But me, I want my graphics to go forward, never backwards in any regard.

As for what they did with the XBOX/PS2 versions, lol. Well, I'll say if you thought those models looked anything other than a poorly drawn cartoon/caricature, god bless you. But I'd imagine if EA didn't think they needed to make major improvements to those models since the 360/PS3 gen hit, they would'nt have. Heck, they've been updating the models every year this gen. Last gen, the differences from year to year were negligible and that's being nice about it.


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Originally Posted by NBA2k8 CHAMP
Not really..Like said we are using PS3 and 360's
Quote:
Originally Posted by NBA2k8 CHAMP
online shooters are use to having 40-50 players online and big explosions and so on IT CAN BE DONE.
It's not quite that simple. Believe it or not, football games are arguably the toughest type of games to program. The AI component affects and is affected by so many things, not the least of which is the number of characters being manipulated all at once. In shooters, you have only a few characters in a frame to allot resources to in a split-second. In football, you're talking 22+. It's not a small task, and certainly not one you can compare from a resource standpoint with a shooter.
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Old 10-10-2008, 12:52 PM   #38
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Re: Madden has along way to go

To sum up what everyone is saying EA Sports , your game is trash. Trash! Trash! Trash! Trash! Trash! I'm going back to enjoy Metal Gear Solid 4 now because the only other game I have is absolute trash. It really sucks for me too because right now i'm broke and can't afford to trade it in to get 2K9. That's what happens when you trust EA Sports. EA Sports '' It's In The Game , But If It's Not We Will Make You A Patch And Take 4 Weeks To Put It Out , Only For You To Find Out That The Patch Didn't Really Do Anything , And You Didn't Have To Wait To Start Your Franchise ''. Thank you , hail 2K Sports , and i'm out!!!!!
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Old 10-10-2008, 01:00 PM   #39
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Re: Madden has along way to go

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To sum up what everyone is saying EA Sports , your game is trash. Trash! Trash! Trash! Trash! Trash! I'm going back to enjoy Metal Gear Solid 4 now because the only other game I have is absolute trash. It really sucks for me too because right now i'm broke and can't afford to trade it in to get 2K9. That's what happens when you trust EA Sports. EA Sports '' It's In The Game , But If It's Not We Will Make You A Patch And Take 4 Weeks To Put It Out , Only For You To Find Out That The Patch Didn't Really Do Anything , And You Didn't Have To Wait To Start Your Franchise ''. Thank you , hail 2K Sports , and i'm out!!!!!
Thats what everyone was/is saying?

lol @ every word that "EA says" is capitalized. Why is that funny, I don't know, but it made me chuckle.
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Old 10-10-2008, 01:41 PM   #40
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Re: Madden has along way to go

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hail 2K Sports
So they never made a bad gm? Madden is Madden. They're still doing the things that made it popular. Cant blame that. The real question is does the game satisfy the gamers of 2day? For the most part, yes. Y not bash SCEA Sports..they're NBA game is not good. 2k Baseball not Good. Millions of shooters...terrible. Both 2k and EA and a host of other devs have had issues and are patching games left and right.
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