Back Again - Passing Game and WR Route Running

[ray665]

This is an excellent point and i thought madden pissed me off before reading this, but your right, no incompletes unless a pick or bat down. D- line pressure causing a incomplete would be great. Add it to list.

Excellent thread.
played madden for 15 years or so and new passing was off but this opened my eyes to exactly why.

[RGiles36]

I went home and tested this myself in All-Pro Football last night. LBz is right: it is a lot more realistic. I'd say that receivers still adjusted to the ball about 40% of the time if I let it out early. But it was still alot less forgiving than Madden is.

Unfortunately, I do not foresee EA making the switch to this type of passing. It'll likely be looked at as non-fun or too hard.

[chris luva luva]

I have my doubts that we'll see anything like this any time soon. There's simply too much they'd have to change and unless they've been secretly working on these changes for a few years now, I doubt we'll see them before 2011.

[sketch22]

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

Unfortunately, I do not foresee EA making the switch to this type of passing. It'll likely be looked at as non-fun or too hard.

Thats the biggest problem with Madden in my eyes. It tries to cater to two sets of people instead of making a much better product for one.
If they went to this style of gameplay it would kill Madden Nation and all the players who drop back 15 yards and run in circles till someone gets open. And sadly those type of players are what makes them their money.

[RGiles36]

Quote: Originally Posted by sketch22

Thats the biggest problem with Madden in my eyes. It tries to cater to two sets of people instead of making a much better product for one. If they went to this style of gameplay it would kill Madden Nation and all the players who drop back 15 yards and run in circles till someone gets open. And sadly those type of players are what makes them their money.

I have to agree here. Basically, EA is doing they're best to create games to satisfy both the casual and hardcore. How about we cancel both of those fan bases out and instead concentrate on creating an authentic NFL experience, period? Who can complain then if the game is mimicked closely to what we see on Sundays? It kills me that we sit here and talk about having to cater to this crowd or that crowd. Just create a game that gives NFL fans authentic NFL football. That's what it's supposed to be after all, right? Forget about pleasing the hardcore & casuals.

If there is such a demand for the casual experience, why do games such NFL Tour & Facebreaker (maybe not Facebreaker?) continue to flunk? Maybe I'm missing something

[SoxFan01605]

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

I have to agree here. Basically, EA is doing they're best to create games to satisfy both the casual and hardcore. How about we cancel both of those fan bases out and instead concentrate on creating an authentic NFL experience, period? Who can complain then if the game is mimicked closely to what we see on Sundays? It kills me that we sit here and talk about having to cater to this crowd or that crowd. Just create a game that gives NFL fans authentic NFL football. That's what it's supposed to be after all, right? Forget about pleasing the hardcore & casuals. If there is such a demand for the casual experience, why do games such NFL Tour & Facebreaker (maybe not Facebreaker?) continue to flunk? Maybe I'm missing something

It's a fine idea in theory, but it just wouldn't happen that cut and dry. Madden fans (the "casual" ones, at any rate) are looking more for a fun videogame than the truest representation of the sport. It does better than the NFL Tours and Blitz games because it's "close enough" to representing football without being too complicated for the casual player. You say "who can complain?" The answer is those who are more fans of Madden ball than football...and their number is fairly large.

I just look at 2K having to drop their pricepoint just to compete (and even then it wasn't that tight...that's not to say it couldn't have gained momentum over some years, but Madden is tough to dethrone simply because of brand recognition). I know plenty of people who only bought 2K5 because it was cheap enough to allow them to still get Madden.

It's a sad reality, but I don't think the bulk of gamers are looking for the most realistic experience in their games, but the most fun. Obviously opinions can differ on just what constitutes fun (I, myself, would think realism=fun, but clearly I'm not in the majority), but Madden proves a point I've made about "next-gen" gaming in general...Prettier=better for many. The PS3 and 360 have enough juice to offer compelling and deep gaming experiences, and yet graphics seem to be priority one. Recently that trend does seem to be shifting a bit, but for sports games it's coming along slower.

I could go on forever (and almost have...lol) but I just don't think what we will ever see a 100% simulation Madden anytime soon. I'll happily admit to being wrong if Ian proves it so though

[RGiles36]

Quote: Originally Posted by SoxFan01605

It's a fine idea in theory, but it just wouldn't happen that cut and dry. Madden fans (the "casual" ones, at any rate) are looking more for a fun videogame than the truest representation of the sport. It does better than the NFL Tours and Blitz games because it's "close enough" to representing football without being too complicated for the casual player. You say "who can complain?" The answer is those who are more fans of Madden ball than football...and their number is fairly large. I just look at 2K having to drop their pricepoint just to compete (and even then it wasn't that tight...that's not to say it couldn't have gained momentum over some years, but Madden is tough to dethrone simply because of brand recognition). I know plenty of people who only bought 2K5 because it was cheap enough to allow them to still get Madden. It's a sad reality, but I don't think the bulk of gamers are looking for the most realistic experience in their games, but the most fun. Obviously opinions can differ on just what constitutes fun (I, myself, would think realism=fun, but clearly I'm not in the majority), but Madden proves a point I've made about "next-gen" gaming in general...Prettier=better for many. The PS3 and 360 have enough juice to offer compelling and deep gaming experiences, and yet graphics seem to be priority one. Recently that trend does seem to be shifting a bit, but for sports games it's coming along slower. I could go on forever (and almost have...lol) but I just don't think what we will ever see a 100% simulation Madden anytime soon. I'll happily admit to being wrong if Ian proves it so though

Perhaps you're right and I did rant a little bit . However, I still think the hardcore vs. casual discussion is overblown.

One point I'd like to make though is that at one time, Madden was what some would classify as an all-out simulation (and still sold numerous units). So though you may say it's not that cut and dry to place this game in a different more-sim like direction, couldn't the same have been said when Madden was transitioning to the casual arcade game that it is now? Lets pretend for a moment that we are and always have been 'casual' sports-gaming fans and we yearned for a more casual Madden experience. Years ago, couldn't we have also said, it's not that cut and dry to make the game more casual instead of so sim? Does that make sense?

[LBzrule]

I see them in a no win situation. It's almost like theories in weight training on whether you can build muscle and lose fat at the same time. The one that made the most sense went like this. If you chase two goals that pull you in opposite directions you end up hitting neither. Then it asked how can you build muscle and lose fat at the same time when 1 requires an excess of calories and the other requires a deficit? You can't. You focus on one thing, hit it and then come back to the next one.