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Requesting feedback on 5-step drop animation

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Old 11-14-2008, 10:31 PM   #121
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Re: Requesting feedback on 5-step drop animation

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Originally Posted by Phil_Frazier_EA
Sorry Izzy. I'm on my 4th 360 overall as well. I know the frustration.

We have no reason to believe that Madden specifically causes the RRoD. That particular failure is because of faulty hardware inside the box. One of my cases was with Madden however the others were with whatever game I was playing a lot of at the time.

Phil

Oh, man I didnt know that. A guy told me that Madden was causing my box to do that. My fault. Thats why I'm all up in arms tonight, I've been offline for about a week.
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Old 11-14-2008, 10:48 PM   #122
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Re: Requesting feedback on 5-step drop animation

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Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings_EA
Thanks all who posted feedback. I find it very disappointing that so many folks actually use the opportunity (of actually making changes in regards to the development of YOUR game) to complain about me actually asking for feedback, or how nothing will change in our game anyway, or what have you. Frankly, anyone with replies like that goes straight to my ignore list.

This is going to be a special year. One where each and every one of you can shape the direction of Madden NFL 2010. An opportunity none of us have ever experienced in the 20+ year history in football games. If you can't get yourself in a mindset where you actually want to help out rather than express blind hatred and cynicism, then I feel for you - because for the rest of us it's going to be an extremely fun and groundbreaking experience.

Again, thanks much to all those who provided feedback. I'll have another update on this (based directly on your feedback) in the coming weeks / months.

Ian
Thanks for coming here, Ian. I usually don't chime in here, but I had some relevant thoughts on this topic, and worked extra-hard to keep them constructive and eliminate the possibility of turning the posts, which contained legitimate and constructive criticism, into simple and brainless bashing.

Obviously, you just have to slough that off.

What do you think, though, about the substantive discussion in this thread regarding players' response or lack thereof to the ground?
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:47 PM   #123
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Re: Requesting feedback on 5-step drop animation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings_EA
Thanks all who posted feedback. I find it very disappointing that so many folks actually use the opportunity (of actually making changes in regards to the development of YOUR game) to complain about me actually asking for feedback, or how nothing will change in our game anyway, or what have you. Frankly, anyone with replies like that goes straight to my ignore list.

This is going to be a special year. One where each and every one of you can shape the direction of Madden NFL 2010. An opportunity none of us have ever experienced in the 20+ year history in football games. If you can't get yourself in a mindset where you actually want to help out rather than express blind hatred and cynicism, then I feel for you - because for the rest of us it's going to be an extremely fun and groundbreaking experience.

Again, thanks much to all those who provided feedback. I'll have another update on this (based directly on your feedback) in the coming weeks / months.

Ian
Hey Ian,

I'm not really a football fan, not really into Madden or any other football game, but I must say I love what you're doing here. This kind of interaction is truly a great thing to see. I frequent the Live forums and Live devs stephensonmc, iminurbase, and Beluba are doing their thing there also, but you're on another level. Just keep on doing what you're doing. Don't really have that much feedback cos like I said, not really a football gamer, just here to give props to you and what you're doing.
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Old 11-15-2008, 01:33 AM   #124
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Re: Requesting feedback on 5-step drop animation

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Originally Posted by countryboy
Its simply amazing that for years, people on these boards bitched because they wanted someone from EA to listen to their ideas, their suggestions. People felt that putting ideas in the wishlist was nothing more than a waste of time because no way in hell anyone from EA would read it.

Well here we are today. We have the Senior Producer & the lead gameplay guy here listening to our complaints, concerns, suggestions and they are actively asking for feedback on aspects of the game, but yet, people just want to bitch about that. I am ****ing amazed, I truly am. We have the chance to interact and see "our suggestions" come to life so to speak, but too many people want to litter the thread with negativity and bitch.

Now people are saying that EA's in bigger trouble because they are seeking the help of the gamers. Please explain to me how in the world that makes any sense. You want the game to be a certain way, include something, now you have the ear of the two most important people on the project, but instead of offering up your suggestion, you use the opportunity to be a dick. Congratulations.

I must say, that I am almost ashamed to be a part of OS right now. Its really quite sad when we have the opportunity that we've begged for, and we let it go to waste because we can't get off our ****ing soap box.

One more thing, come next August, for those of you that want to do nothing more than bitch instead of help, please don't litter the thread with your complaints of how something you felt should be in the game, done differently, or what have you isn't there. You had your opportunity, and you let it go to waste.

-CB
What a great post. Thanks for speaking out, Countryboy.

As for the 5-step drop, I think it needs a little work as it felt a little rushed to me, but it's great to see small things like this being worked on for next year's game. I stopped playing Madden when 2k5 hit and picked up this year's copy and while there are things I'm unhappy with in terms of presentation and gameplay, I can appreciate the good things the game does and it's clear Madden is making more positive strides than negative as it settles into the 360/PS3 game engines.
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Old 11-15-2008, 02:42 AM   #125
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Re: Requesting feedback on 5-step drop animation

The way Ian and Phil are interacting with us, they should change next year's logo from "the game that adapts to you" to "the first game made by gamers, for gamers"!

Anywho, about the five step drop: Looks ok to me, but like many have said, a little too quick.
We need some variety as well; maybe have people show Youtube vids on the various QB's methods....
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Old 11-15-2008, 07:23 AM   #126
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Re: Requesting feedback on 5-step drop animation

Nice 5-step drop animation Ian from a left handed QB. We need more left handed QB's in the league. I look froward to what other new animations you have captured.
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Old 11-15-2008, 09:09 AM   #127
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Re: Requesting feedback on 5-step drop animation

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Originally Posted by spankdatazz22
Speaking for myself, it's not the fact that feedback is requested. Obviously gamers would love to interact with developers on the development of any game, not just Madden. The issue in this instance (for me) is what's being discussed. I haven't read a lot in the forum so I'm sure there have been other things discussed, but the most prevelant things thus far seem to be... a couple celebration animations, and a QB drop animation. And hints at bigger/better things being worked on. I wasn't trying to slam Tiburon on requesting feedback - but feedback for the QB drops? If Ian came in and said "we're looking at implementing various coverage options for certain situations and are trying to think of possible downsides blah blah blah" I don't think you'd see most people speaking negatively about the issue.

But this is the QB drop we're talking about. Not the strategy behind 3-5-7 step drops and the QB/WR interaction, not the strategy behind developing defensive line stunts/offensive line counters... it's a 10+page thread on the QB drop itself. Not multiple dropbacks, just one. And I think the thread contains examples using other games, which I'd think would be more infuriating than anything. That's the videogame equivalent of having a girlfriend that constantly wants you to be more like her old boyfriend lol. Anyone in that situation either needs to step or look at themselves and start asking some serious questions. Again, it's not that gamers don't want to provide feedback - I'm sure people would've loved to have had a big say in any game. But I'm not a developer. And I don't know the conditions they have to work under or the limitations of the technology. Many requests being made may be impractical. One of the first things people jumped on in this thread was "is that the only dropback anim?". And I'm not even sure there's been a definitive yes/no answer. In the end, we're talking about a [seemingly] simple dropback animation, something I wouldn't think would be difficult to implement since it's been done fairly well in the not-so-distant and distant past. Personally I wouldn't think there'd need to be this much dialogue regarding something seemingly routine.
Two things:

1 - the last time I checked, Madden doesn't release until August. That means, before it goes gold, we have 7 more months of development time. Meaning that we have time for them to interact with us about other aspects of the game. In case you haven't seen, people complained quite vocally about the QB dropback animation. They wanted it changed and thats what this thread is for. We are discussing the animation, or at least trying to. And its not 10+ pages of discussion on the QB animation, its a few pages of that and the others are just nonsense.

2 - we all pretty much know you have an issue with anything EA does. So please, stop posting this type of stuff in these threads. Maybe you think its a dumb idea or whatever, but there are those who asked for the QB animation to be changed and we'd like to be able to discuss it without having people tell us how pathetic it is that we are even engaging in this type of discussion.
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Last edited by countryboy; 11-15-2008 at 09:14 AM.
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Old 11-15-2008, 11:48 AM   #128
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Re: Requesting feedback on 5-step drop animation

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Originally Posted by countryboy
Two things:

1 - the last time I checked, Madden doesn't release until August. That means, before it goes gold, we have 7 more months of development time. Meaning that we have time for them to interact with us about other aspects of the game. In case you haven't seen, people complained quite vocally about the QB dropback animation. They wanted it changed and thats what this thread is for. We are discussing the animation, or at least trying to. And its not 10+ pages of discussion on the QB animation, its a few pages of that and the others are just nonsense.
As one who has been posting since Madden '06 about the horrible QB animations, I understand the change is long, LONG overdue. But again, it's the QB animation. From what I've seen people are simply linking NFL Films video or Youtube video trying to "show" the developers what a QB animation really should look like. Sorry but that seems really basic to me - they really need to be shown what a QB drop looks like? I wouldn't think they would which is why I commented - but maybe they do, since the animation has been jacked since the game made the next gen jump.

While there are a handful of folks on the board I'd consider truly talented and/or an extremely knowledgeable resource, I don't see OS on the whole as having some particular insight on the way a QB drops/plants his feet that can't be found elsewhere with minimal effort. If there was a thread debating the width of the Redskins helmet stripe I'd be saying the same thing. It's obvious it's wrong. But do you really need community input on getting it right? Would they need Redskins fans posting pics of how it really should look? I would think most game developers have a sense of what they want their game to be, and what they choose to make a priority or focus on - maybe that's why I haven't seen Infinity Ward asking if the troops in Call of Duty are walking/running correctly, or whether Epic needs feedback on how COGs should hold a gun. It's a QB drop animation. There are tons of visual references, from going to a game, to online video, to looking how other games have done it. Maybe I'm mistaken in thinking the way I am but I don't see the online community having some secret insight on something that seems basic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by countryboy
2 - we all pretty much know you have an issue with anything EA does. So please, stop posting this type of stuff in these threads. Maybe you think its a dumb idea or whatever, but there are those who asked for the QB animation to be changed and we'd like to be able to discuss it without having people tell us how pathetic it is that we are even engaging in this type of discussion.
*sigh* No, the sad thing is something legit gets said and the same ignorant fall back argument is used. The issue is we're four years into next gen and the QB animations still suck - not that "I hate EA and everything they do" lol. As I've said, I don't think there's a person out there that doesn't appreciate Tiburon's presence. But if someone reacts with a "what the hell are you guys thinking" response when you hear explanations as to why certain things are they way they are in the game, it's not because they're trying to be disrespectful. At least most people aren't. Either way, I didn't mean to step on toes... again lol
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