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Requesting feedback on 5-step drop animation

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Old 11-15-2008, 12:17 PM   #129
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Re: Requesting feedback on 5-step drop animation

Quote:
Originally Posted by spankdatazz22
As one who has been posting since Madden '06 about the horrible QB animations, I understand the change is long, LONG overdue. But again, it's the QB animation. From what I've seen people are simply linking NFL Films video or Youtube video trying to "show" the developers what a QB animation really should look like. Sorry but that seems really basic to me - they really need to be shown what a QB drop looks like? I wouldn't think they would which is why I commented - but maybe they do, since the animation has been jacked since the game made the next gen jump.

While there are a handful of folks on the board I'd consider truly talented and/or an extremely knowledgeable resource, I don't see OS on the whole as having some particular insight on the way a QB drops/plants his feet that can't be found elsewhere with minimal effort. If there was a thread debating the width of the Redskins helmet stripe I'd be saying the same thing. It's obvious it's wrong. But do you really need community input on getting it right? Would they need Redskins fans posting pics of how it really should look? I would think most game developers have a sense of what they want their game to be, and what they choose to make a priority or focus on - maybe that's why I haven't seen Infinity Ward asking if the troops in Call of Duty are walking/running correctly, or whether Epic needs feedback on how COGs should hold a gun. It's a QB drop animation. There are tons of visual references, from going to a game, to online video, to looking how other games have done it. Maybe I'm mistaken in thinking the way I am but I don't see the online community having some secret insight on something that seems basic.
I don't think that the guys at EA are asking for us to build the animation because they can't do it themselves or look out there and find visual evidence. I think they are doing this so that we have some input, we can provide our suggestions, we can feel like we're part of the development of Madden 2010. And its also not blowing smoke up our butts either I don't think. We wanted to be involved, so they are involving us, even if right now its for something "basic".


What I still don't understand honestly, is we say that we're excited for the opportunity to interact with the developers, that we want our input/opinions heard, but then we criticize when they ask for it or say, well this is worth asking community feedback for, its simple. Like I said, people complained about how the QB dropped back and offered suggestions. Ian, posted this video to show a drop back and wanted those who weren't satisfied to provide feedback. I don't see whats wrong with that. I mean, if they feel that we think its "beneath" us to provide feedback on this one aspect, what else are they going to feel that its "beneath" us to provide feedback on?



Quote:
Originally Posted by spankdatazz
*sigh* No, the sad thing is something legit gets said and the same ignorant fall back argument is used. The issue is we're four years into next gen and the QB animations still suck - not that "I hate EA and everything they do" lol. As I've said, I don't think there's a person out there that doesn't appreciate Tiburon's presence. But if someone reacts with a "what the hell are you guys thinking" response when you hear explanations as to why certain things are they way they are in the game, it's not because they're trying to be disrespectful. At least most people aren't. Either way, I didn't mean to step on toes... again lol
the part I bolded.... you say this but then criticize when they ask for community input on how to better it. I don't understand that. I mean, instead of criticizing them for what they are asking for, why not try and offer your advice? I mean, we all want the best Madden game we can get, right?
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Old 11-15-2008, 02:41 PM   #130
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Re: Requesting feedback on 5-step drop animation

There are two things that need to be considered when working on the qb dropback.

1. The developer needs to first understand why a qb does a 3-5-7 step dropback. It's to coincide with the playcall, it's all for the timing. In a perfect situation(no pressure from defensive linemen on the qb and no pressure from the DB on the receiver), the dropback is designed so that when the primary receiver is about to make his critical cut, the qb should be at the end of his drop about to plant his back foot and step into the throw, making a perfect pass and catch.

Until developers understand that, the dropback will always be wrong. That is my main problem with Madden and I think the reason why so many question if the people developing Madden are even real true football guys. It's because there is so much fundamentally wrong with the game that talking about dropbacks maybe useless if the developers themselves are not prepared to implement a real dropback to coincide with the receivers routes.

2. FOOTWORK! Footwork will take care of the question of if a qb drop should be able to be interupted. OFCOURSE! Watch Peyton Manning, his drops are interrupted all the time. Watch his immediate next move, he steps up and moves away from the pressure. KEYWORD, "moves". He doesn't hold the ball like a loaf of bread and scramble. He steps, he steps, he freakin' steps. Steps to the side,steps up, drops back. You know why he does this? Staying square is critical to making a good throw. And to stay square a QB needs great footwork, so when they are pressured off the linear 3-5-7 step dropback, most qb's will only move slightly so they can get back to that base that will cause a good throw. That is why most don't scramble, because throwing on the run is difficult and doesn't have a high completion rate, even with the good ones.

FIX THE FUNDAMENTALS FIRST!

If that doesn't happen, we will never have a football game the we can truely call sim.
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Old 11-15-2008, 06:21 PM   #131
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Re: Requesting feedback on 5-step drop animation

Ian this is much better than what's in place now but IMO the animation needs to be recaptured. The QB is moving a bit too fast and holding the ball too low.
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Old 11-16-2008, 12:46 PM   #132
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Re: Requesting feedback on 5-step drop animation

Ian please if u have the time, develop a QB evade system like 2k5 had. That would be so cool and we have a opportunity to get away from would be sackers. Thats my two-cents. Thanks for the feedback..looking good
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Old 11-16-2008, 02:43 PM   #133
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Re: Requesting feedback on 5-step drop animation

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Originally Posted by boydra
Ian this is much better than what's in place now but IMO the animation needs to be recaptured. The QB is moving a bit too fast and holding the ball too low.
I think this is a two-part issue:

1. It might be worth revisiting the Madden 07 concept of how some RB's held the ball at different heights while running. They had Tiki Barber with a high hold and Larry Johnson with a lower one. In other words, we need signature styles again and this would directly address the hold point issue for QBs.

2. QB's need to have different drop back animations and speeds (in addition to having different release points and throwing styles). If they all drop back the same, it's not believeable from an experience continuity standpoint.

Knowing that Madden 07 did a great job with signature styles for RB's 2 seasons ago, and then seeing what All Pro Football did with sig styles... and now seeing other sports development teams making this a big part of their arsenal, it's one of those levels were I think we all hope for Madden to be at the forefront of.
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Old 11-16-2008, 03:39 PM   #134
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Re: Requesting feedback on 5-step drop animation

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If that doesn't happen, we will never have a football game the we can truely call sim.
what u talkin about, NFL 2K is true sim
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Old 11-16-2008, 05:24 PM   #135
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Re: Requesting feedback on 5-step drop animation

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Originally Posted by adfletch71
Ian please if u have the time, develop a QB evade system like 2k5 had. That would be so cool and we have a opportunity to get away from would be sackers. Thats my two-cents. Thanks for the feedback..looking good
This one is looooooooong overdue. Pressing the left trigger currently does nothing during passing, so this needs to be used for the evade feature. I'd then also suggest an evade rating so people don't get out of control with it, and also for the purpose of allowing it to be tweaked by the end user.

Last edited by TheWatcher; 11-16-2008 at 10:44 PM.
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Old 11-16-2008, 05:43 PM   #136
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Re: Requesting feedback on 5-step drop animation

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Originally Posted by TheWatcher
This one is looooooooong overdue. Moving the right stick currently does nothing during passing, so this needs to be used for the evade feature. I'd then also suggest an evade rating so people don't get out of control with it, and also for the purpose of allowing it to be tweaked by the end user.
Isn't the right stick currently used for directing the closest receiver to the QB?
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