Im feeling really good about Madden 2010 and so should you!

[Flamehead]

Quote: Originally Posted by OJsakila

ANY sim you mention, anyway, i will link you the forums where they cried like babies about it. Just like you guys are doing now.

That doesn't prove anything. I could link you to any forums for any random consumer product where people complain as well. Every consumer product has its critics--no matter what it is. But to say the latest Madden is the best sim to ever come out is a serious stretch.

I'm sure the EA suits appreciate your enthusiasm, but objectively speaking, there is no way in the world the "next-gen" Madden is a better sim than the "previous-gen" madden, be it because of number of iterations, more time on those platforms, whatever reason you want to give it. That's why there's a current wave of posters who are migrating back to those--yeah, the last-gen Maddens have their faults too that people have complained about, but the overwhelming consensus is that they play a better sim of football in addition to more franchise options.

If you believe the current Madden is the best one ever, more power to you, but IMO, you'll be in the minority on this one (on these boards anyway). But in the end, who cares, right? It's your $60, so knock yourself out.

[MJenness]

Quote: Originally Posted by OJsakila

And yet you fail to tell me the better football sim. You disagree but you havent backed it up. ANY sim you mention, anyway, i will link you the forums where they cried like babies about it. Just like you guys are doing now. Its when I see posts like this I have to say wtf!? (sound familiar?) Ive been around alot longer than most of you and i can tell you that YOU'LL NEVER BE HAPPY. Ive seen it all before.

See ESPN NFL 2k5 AND Madden 05 for the better football sim.

And sure, there will ALWAYS be people to complain about aspects of the game, because no game will ever be perfect. Yes, both of those games had flaws, but were leaps and bounds better, in every way except graphically, in being "sim" games, IMO.

And I've been a gamer since the beginning of video games, which doesn't make me an expert, but does give the years of games to draw comparisons with. And personally, I WILL be happy, when EA surpasses the 2 games I mentioned above, as that would show progress, which is all we can ask for, realistically.

[Ian_Cummings]

Quote: Originally Posted by boooey

i am hopeful as well for 2010 thanks to Ian's interaction here, but my main concern is still the fact that Ian/EA still need to be told the most obvious of football presentation and animation details of what we would like to see. Up until this point they refused to copy/borrow/steal any aspects of the 2K series while knowing it is what we want. (Even last Gen Madden is closer to what we want, and they don't seen to realize that) While I appreciate Ian here, I just get the feeling Ian is not a true football guy, otherwise he would already know what the game should look and feel like. We should not have to tell him what a real spin looks like, or how the crowd should be involved, or how the coverage interaction on the field should look like.. This is what is concerns me the most about ever getting the game we want. I have no doubt that Tiburon has a bunch of talented developers working on the Next-Gen Madden, but they do not appear to know how real football is supposed to look and feel. Its like we need a few guys from this site to sit there with the programmers to make sure they get it right this time, otherwise I honestly don't have much faith, until I'm proven otherwise.

I hope you realize posts like these make me SEETHING mad dude.

Do you want me here or not? I'm going out of my way to keep you guys in the loop and make sure we're all involved...and what do you do? Say things like "I get the feeling Ian is not a true football guy". Posts like this make me want to go dark and not create another post here. Tell me...is that would you'd prefer? Apparently you shouldn't have to tell me anything anyway, so why am I here? And you directly contradict yourself by saying you are concerned with the game "we want"...why do you not want to be involved in providing feedback for the game "we want"? You assume I have to know and deliver all of it already I guess?

Of course I know what a spin move should look like and how the crowd should react. I also know what a pocket looks like, and anything else you might mention. Just because we know what things look like doesn't mean they can automatically be executed. That's why not every Joe Gamer off the street can be a game designer...you have to figure out how to implement things.

Sheesh.

[Ian_Cummings]

Quote: Originally Posted by dave374

No offence Ian, but we have ... and it's Madden 09. Your patch did little or nothing and we got no DLC. So far, the only thing your input has given us is someone to biotch to and hope (albeit a leap of hope) for Madden 2010.

I think that's a little extreme...we made more changes in the patch than any EA game in history...I don't know if it's fair that you not give me any credit for that. We also made a ton of changes right during Beta from uniforms to gameplay tweaks to hotspots going away that otherwise would not have made it. I was definitely happy with what we were able to accomplish with me being on the team for only like 2 weeks.

[ImagiNationFreak]

Quote: Originally Posted by MJenness

See ESPN NFL 2k5 AND Madden 05 for the better football sim.

ESPN NFL 2K5 without a doubt is a great game, it could of gotten better over the years. Then again, it could of took the Madden road and got worse, we will never know.

IMO, I think they failed after Madden 2004. I enjoy Madden 2003 more than the new Maddens. Madden 2005 and beyond are rehashed versions of itself with added features that, personally, I could care less about.

[Cusefan]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings_EA

I hope you realize posts like these make me SEETHING mad dude. Do you want me here or not? I'm going out of my way to keep you guys in the loop and make sure we're all involved...and what do you do? Say things like "I get the feeling Ian is not a true football guy". Posts like this make me want to go dark and not create another post here. Tell me...is that would you'd prefer? Apparently you shouldn't have to tell me anything anyway, so why am I here? And you directly contradict yourself by saying you are concerned with the game "we want"...why do you not want to be involved in providing feedback for the game "we want"? You assume I have to know and deliver all of it already I guess? Of course I know what a spin move should look like and how the crowd should react. I also know what a pocket looks like, and anything else you might mention. Just because we know what things look like doesn't mean they can automatically be executed. That's why not every Joe Gamer off the street can be a game designer...you have to figure out how to implement things. Sheesh.

OOOOHHHHHH SCHNAPPP, Boooey




Ian just ignore them

[Pro Bowler]

I read Ian's blog on the game engine and even though he does a great job of explaining he still dodges the reality of what a lot of us are talking about.

If you read his blog he is basically saying they have 4 engines running simutaneously in executing one code or final product. So, it's either the main code or one or more or all of these engines that need to be replaced.

I'm not just hammering on EA, 2k is in the same boat also. The only difference is 2k had a more realistic looking game to begin with and more control options but even it's NBA 2k series is running into the same wall and they shot their ownselves in the foot with APF by doing exactly what EA is doing.

When people go out and buy a new next gen system they want a new next gen game, not just some reincarnation of a old game using a old code and old game engines BASED ON AND CREATED FOR OLDER HARDWARE AND TECHNOLOGY.

Madden just feels so 90's and all the tweaking of the main code and game engines is just not getting it done. This game is still relying on a code and possibly game engines from the PS1 version(11 years ago) and it shows.

If you look at Backbreaker everything they're doing is Next Gen from the graphics, physics, rendering, animation, sound and gameplay. Now if it will work or be any good is another question, but I personally would have had alot more respect and could have dealt with the imperfections if EA would have atleast tried. Instead they tried to recycle something that was 7 or 8 years old to begin with that doesn't even meet some of the standards of the same game on a last gen console.

Instead of Ian asking us what we think the game needs. I think we would all be better off asking what this game does well and doesn't need changed.

[Ian_Cummings]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pro Bowler

If you look at Backbreaker everything they're doing is Next Gen from the graphics, physics, rendering, animation, sound and gameplay. Now if it will work or be any good is another question, but I personally would have had alot more respect and could have dealt with the imperfections if EA would have atleast tried. Instead they tried to recycle something that was 7 or 8 years old to begin with that doesn't even meet some of the standards of the same game on a last gen console.

Good thought, but you're actually incorrect here. What you don't realize is that WE DID the exact same thing that you are requesting. We scrapped physics, rendering, AI, and animation engines (as well as all sound systems) when we moved to 360, and lo and behold Madden 06 is actually the fruit of that labor. We ran out of time on physics and much of AI rewrites, so a lot of that stuff got ported in like the final few weeks of the project. And all the complaints on all the missing game modes and features? That's what happens when you scrap everything. NBA 2k and games of that nature just improved in bits and pieces...which is a much better approach when you're dealing with games of our magnitude. Backbreaker is starting from one thing - a physics demo. I have no idea whether they'll deliver good audio or any game modes or online play or any of the other major things expected to create a AAA title nowadays. I actually hope they do...I like competition.