Madden/NCAA Should Get Rid of the Sprint Button

[JeffHCross]

I agree except for using R2 to turn off passing icons for the QB. We had to do that in the early days on PS2 and it was a pain, particularly on a rollout. For cheese-killing purposes maybe it's needed, but I would not be a fan.

Quote: Originally Posted by Exonerated

I would like to keep turbo though. But turbo should destroy your fatigue ( see fifa 09 ).

This is an interesting topic to me. When I'm on defense, I often control the defensive linemen. I've noticed that if I control one lineman repeatedly, his fatigue drops drastically. He'll be on the bench before the series is halfway done.

So something about my user control (maybe trying to use moves to get around the OL?) is fatiguing him. I haven't figured out what.

[LL-Cool-P]

Quote: Originally Posted by JeffHCross

So something about my user control (maybe trying to use moves to get around the OL?) is fatiguing him. I haven't figured out what.

Are you using repetitive spin/power moves with the D-lineman?

Might be the cause, only thing I can think of.

[Joborule]

Quote: Originally Posted by rhombic21

I've been thinking about it, and even if they don't completely do away with the sprint button, I think that they could do away with it only for QBs, and it would fix a LOT of problems that the game faces in terms of mobile QBs being able to run around forever behind the LOS (is particularly a problem on NCAA). Instead of making right trigger sprint for the QB, make right trigger enter the "runner mode" for the QB. This would basically make QBs run at a non-sprinting speed (which would still be faster than the speed they move at if they're in the throwing stance), take down the icons, and then allow the use of your jukes, stiff arms, spin moves, etc.... I know that on NCAA, the team was concerned because the non-linear speed curve is good for making gameplay more wide open so that really fast players make big plays in the open field, but it causes some problems with the pass rush because now 80+ speed QBs can pretty easily run away from pressure. And then there are also problems with giving QBs realistic speed ratings, because if you make the speed ratings low in order to make pressure easier, it then has a negative impact on the designed QB running plays (of which there are a ton on NCAA). Seems like this would be a way to fix that, so that you could still get the wide open gameplay in terms of skill players and open field running, but without making it impossible to get realistic pressure on the QB. Just a thought.

I don't see why making a QB scramble at non-sprint speed is necessary. If they're on the running too fast, their accuracy should take a hit (depending on player attributes, will determine how well a player can throw on the run). If I have a fast QB, and I want to get away from the rush that chasing me, I should be able to pull away if my player has good enough acceleration and speed, I should be able to get away. The D should contain the QB better. Not hold back a player skill. That's the cheap way out and not getting the full authentic experience.

But I do think that it's possible to do the NHL approach and do rid of a sprint button. Speed can be determine by how much the R stick is pushed up (and most of the time, players will want 100% acceleration anyway). It allows more control options on both sides of the ball.

[RGiles36]

Quote: Originally Posted by Joborule

But I do think that it's possible to do the NHL approach and do rid of a sprint button. Speed can be determine by how much the R stick is pushed up (and most of the time, players will want 100% acceleration anyway). It allows more control options on both sides of the ball.

Exactly! Some people argue that and say that they strategically use the sprint button. Maybe they do, but if I was a betting man, I'd suggest that most users (hardcore or casual) constantly hold the sprint button. In that sense, having to hold down an additional button is redundant.

EA, where are you!?!

[rhombic21]

Quote: Originally Posted by Joborule

I don't see why making a QB scramble at non-sprint speed is necessary. If they're on the running too fast, their accuracy should take a hit (depending on player attributes, will determine how well a player can throw on the run). If I have a fast QB, and I want to get away from the rush that chasing me, I should be able to pull away if my player has good enough acceleration and speed, I should be able to get away. The D should contain the QB better. Not hold back a player skill. That's the cheap way out and not getting the full authentic experience. But I do think that it's possible to do the NHL approach and do rid of a sprint button. Speed can be determine by how much the R stick is pushed up (and most of the time, players will want 100% acceleration anyway). It allows more control options on both sides of the ball.

Well, the argument is that most QBs don't sprint full speed behind the LOS because they're still trying to keep their eyes downfield. I was just thinking that if you don't make it so that players automatically sprint at full speed when the stick is pressed all the way (i.e. don't get rid of the sprint button), then making R2 take down the icons and enter "runner" mode would then eliminate the ability to also sprint with the QB. So maybe they could have some sort of 3/4 sprint mode for QBs in "runner mode".

It's not the same thing as on PS2. On PS2 you had to hit the button to bring the icons down, and then hit it again to bring them back up. This would be used via the trigger system, so that the icons disappear when you enter "runner mode" while the trigger is held down, but then they automatically come back and you go back to "passer mode" when the trigger is released. It would actually be more realistic, since most QBs in real life can't run around in the backfield at full speed, and simultaneously look downfield at receivers.

[Joborule]

Quote: Originally Posted by rhombic21

Well, the argument is that most QBs don't sprint full speed behind the LOS because they're still trying to keep their eyes downfield. I was just thinking that if you don't make it so that players automatically sprint at full speed when the stick is pressed all the way (i.e. don't get rid of the sprint button), then making R2 take down the icons and enter "runner" mode would then eliminate the ability to also sprint with the QB. So maybe they could have some sort of 3/4 sprint mode for QBs in "runner mode". It's not the same thing as on PS2. On PS2 you had to hit the button to bring the icons down, and then hit it again to bring them back up. This would be used via the trigger system, so that the icons disappear when you enter "runner mode" while the trigger is held down, but then they automatically come back and you go back to "passer mode" when the trigger is released. It would actually be more realistic, since most QBs in real life can't run around in the backfield at full speed, and simultaneously look downfield at receivers.

I think you can only make things so authentic though. I don't agree with you on the need to limit a QB's speed when they're in the backfeild. Because if I actually want to just sprint and pick up yards by my feet, I have to wait to get to the LOS until I get full speed. That doesn't seem natural and authentic. I think an alternative that can be done is that once a player gets in scramble mode, the awareness rating can come into play. If a player want to pass the ball off to someone after running around. Some receivers will have weak accuracy for the QB (deep down feild and on the other side of the field). If a QB has weak awareness, they will have to be in passing mode for a bit to reflect that they are rexongizing where their recievers are. QBs with better awareness will be able to do this better. Most QB's that are fast aren't that good awareness wise, so this will make it harder for players to run around all day and find a target and make this their gameplan.

Of course though, if d-linemen can get worked on to have better pass rush speed and containment, it will be difficult for QB's to run around like that without causing more harm for themselves because those linemen will be on the QB's like hawks. Heck, if we can fianlly get adaptive AI, the CPU d-linemen will anticapte the QB to run around and will be ready to trap them or prevent them from doing that.

[dano562003]

Quote: Originally Posted by jacory12

I think they should keep it because I don't use it all the time. Sometimes I like to run slow with my HB until I get good blocking and then I run through the hole. I think there is no need to remove this.

Exactly right, I run the same way, take my time running through the holes "WITHOUT TURBO" then when I find a crease I then hit turbo. I like it the way it is.

[Boregard]

This is the worst idea to garner support in Madden Forum history.

The level of control afforded by the analog sticks is not enough to eliminate the "sprint" button. The running game on PS3/X360 absolutely sucks and part of it is that they moved the "sprint" to the trigger. The analog sticks do not allow you to vary your speed quickly enough to wait for blocks and then "turn it on" which was one of my favorite things about the PS2 version of the game - you could actually vary your speed with a decent amount of control by not hitting the "sprint" button until the perfect moment. The current gen games do not have that to nearly the same level. As far as trying to incorporate the variances into the sticks - I am all for the added level of control that might bring. In fact I have said many times that all the buttons need to be pressure sensitive and consistent.On the PS3 version of the game you can tap, press, or mash the triangle button, but you do not get consistent results based on how you hit the button. You might get a big jump out of any of the three, or a "barely put your hands up" out of any of the three.

Move the "sprint" back to the X button so you have to release it to do spins, dives, hurdles, and big jukes "truck/highlight" moves. Which is far more realistic (which we always clamor for) than the way it is now!!! Put the "hurdle" on the triangle button, bring back the "cut" moves on R1/L1, put the stiff-arms back on L2/R2 and have the "protect ball" happen by holding both L2 and R2. Nearly every game worth playing utilizes dual button "moves/actions", so why not Madden.

The QB should have to hold down R2 or L2 depending on what hand he throws with, in order to enter "running mode" - which would allow him to spin/juke/dive/hurdle or whatever even behind the LOS, "roll out" speed could be accomplished by holding the X button, but it would not be full speed and should affect his accuracy based on a rating for throwing "on the run".


No "gamer" in his right mind should ever advocate giving up any control over the action, which is what taking away the "sprint" button would do. Not to mention EA will completely screw this up for two years if they attempt it. The deal with EA is they always go overboard in making corrections. Example the deep ball, everyone moaned cuz it was too easy, so now (even when you have one on one man coverage where the corner has no business staying with the WR based on ratings) the corner has the advantage. Same with pressure from last year to this year. Last year getting pressure was far and away too easy, this year it is nearly impossible unless you are playing a "tool" that holds the ball too long.


Mark my words - If you guys get your way and the "sprint" button gets axed, you will all regret it for two years minimum while EA trys to get it right!!!