Dont use avgs to determine SIM ball

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

No, rushing avg or completion% was not looked at from game to game. That is too small of a sample size. One game a RB could have 100 yds and the next week 60 yds rushing. Let's say there is 5 weeks of preseason games. To keep things easy, let's say there is 20 games per preseason week. That's 100 games. We were looking over those 100 games to keep the rushing avg as close to 4.2 yds per carry as possible. If we needed another 100 games until the the avg was close to 4.2yds, then we would tinker with another 5 weeks season games. You need to look over 1 week of games to receive a better sample of averages vs looking at it from game to game. The results would vary too much.

Thxs Roadman. I like that process alot more than someone using a smaller scale of just viewing a few games. You was more focused on the league as a whole then just a team lets say.

I was looking to see if you did things game by game, then I had this whole presentation I was going to give lol. The method you choose is alot better process than I have seen form others. That choose a more game by game approach or a player.

I still feel that when udjusting sliders the focus should be more on how the players play to thier ratings rather then avgs, and by having them play to thier raitngs then you can really get into scouting the weakness or strength on a team. The after that its all about gameplan and the way you execute it.

My main concern was really was using avgs and relating it to sim play. Like someone just mentioned play calling has a lot to do with the numbers we gather when we play.

We have far less true sim players then we do the players that only calls 4 plays on offense, and 2 on defense.

IM worried if EA took the approach of using avgs to make the game play sim. It will make the game do things it should'nt have cause of the avgs.

When avgs has nothing at all to do with the execution of sim play. Its all about play calling and your knowledge of the game.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tyrant8RDFL

I still feel that when udjusting sliders the focus should be more on how the players play to thier ratings rather then avgs, and by having them play to thier raitngs then you can really get into scouting the weakness or strength on a team. The after that its all about gameplan and the way you execute it. My main concern was really was using avgs and relating it to sim play. Like someone just mentioned play calling has a lot to do with the numbers we gather when we play. We have far less true sim players then we do the players that only calls 4 plays on offense, and 2 on defense. IM worried if EA took the approach of using avgs to make the game play sim. It will make the game do things it should'nt have cause of the avgs. When avgs has nothing at all to do with the execution of sim play. Its all about play calling and your knowledge of the game.

The mystery about a player playing to his ratings, though, is, we don't know if a player would play to his ratings. I think you and I can both agree that up until at least this year, that hasn't been the case with Robo QB, top notch CB's not being distinguished between average to below average CB's, etc....... in 09.

The stat engine didn't work very well on LG Madden, and it's a bit better NG. Until the players play to their similar selves, I feel avg's is the way to go during a season or franchise.

[kcarr]

While playcalling does have a huge effect on the statistics of the game crazy situations such as the one mentioned with the all out blitz and the fly routes should not even be taken into consideration. The statistics of those who know nothing about football strategy or who try to cheese should not even be in consideration. This is why I like the idea of CPU vs CPU testing for sliders. This way most of the cheese and bad playcalling can be eliminated.

That said, if given the option I wouldn't limit myself to 2 plays on defense but it could be very close. I generally base everything off of a 4-3 cover 2 man defense and barely ever blitz unless the situation calls for it. if they would let me set up my defensive matchups and put together my own playbook I would basically only need a few plays per formation. Standard 4-3, nickle, and dime, 4-4, and goalline being those formations. Maybe one or two blitzes per formation. Maybe 2 or 3 zone plays just to mix it up, and enough plays to where I could double any reciever I needed to. Maybe 7 or 8 per formation and I would against most teams have 2 or 3 per formation that would be called 90% of the time.

[monkeybutlerz]

Quote: Originally Posted by shttymcgee

Don't get me wrong, the running game in Madden is way off; it needs many corrections and much work. Look at some of my other posts to see what I think needs to be done. However, I've seen the double team argument many times before and its just wrong. Defensive players are not double teamed, not ever, never, unless they are playing like a 4 man box vs 21 personnel. Never. Never ever. Sorry, but it just doesn't happen. What are used are combination blocks. This is 2 offensive linemen who are responsible for 1 DL and a 2nd level defender, normally a LB. Its simply a numbers game. Take a 12 personnel balanced formation against a 7 man front defense with corners force and safeties secondary force. You have 7 blockers (TE to TE) and one ball carrier. The best the offense can hope for is that every first and second level defender is blocked and a seam is made between the TE to allow the back to get to the safeties. Even if all 7 defenders are blocked, the back can be forced to bounce outside and eaten up by the unblocked db. This doesn't even take into account that vs this formation, the offense is probably going to get sky force (8 man box) or quarters coverage (9 man box once the TE's block). Effective 2-gapping NT's are a staple of a good odd front defense, yes. But if you exclusively double team a player, the offense has a distinct numbers disadvantage and will never gain yards, not in the nfl, its hard enough in college. I know I'm gonna be second guessed on this, but I don't care. Watch film. Download a playbook. Its 2 on 2, not 2 on 1

Alright, well I guess I misused the term of double team, I understand it's kind of a chip and then moving on to the second level. My point focuses more so on the fact that in real life, if you try and put a lineman purely 1 on 1 with a Haloti Ngata, a Haynesworth, a Hampton, a Sean Rogers, etc. they're going to get destroyed. And that's even the good linemen, let alone the bad ones. So when I see bad linemen single block these players with ease, it shows bad gameplay mechanics in terms of the portrayal of the actual sport.

Lets face it, these players make their defenses better, not only because they make the occasional tackle, but because they change the line of scrimmage, they suck up blocks and open up oppurtunities for the LBs behind them.

[kcarr]

Quote: Originally Posted by monkeybutlerz

Alright, well I guess I misused the term of double team, I understand it's kind of a chip and then moving on to the second level. My point focuses more so on the fact that in real life, if you try and put a lineman purely 1 on 1 with a Haloti Ngata, a Haynesworth, a Hampton, a Sean Rogers, etc. they're going to get destroyed. And that's even the good linemen, let alone the bad ones. So when I see bad linemen single block these players with ease, it shows bad gameplay mechanics in terms of the portrayal of the actual sport. Lets face it, these players make their defenses better, not only because they make the occasional tackle, but because they change the line of scrimmage, they suck up blocks and open up oppurtunities for the LBs behind them.

I will agree with this post. While it is very rare that 2 players will work on blocking just one defensive player for the entire play it is also very rare to find a play in which there is not at least one instance of a player getting blocked by two players

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

The mystery about a player playing to his ratings, though, is, we don't know if a player would play to his ratings. I think you and I can both agree that up until at least this year, that hasn't been the case with Robo QB, top notch CB's not being distinguished between average to below average CB's, etc....... in 09. The stat engine didn't work very well on LG Madden, and it's a bit better NG. Until the players play to their similar selves, I feel avg's is the way to go during a season or franchise.

Ok I totally Agree. Last gen and next gen Madden perform totally different,so taking a different approach to get sliders for the next gen Madden makes a ton of sense.

Im still playing last gen madden, so Im still fortunate to set my sliders to better reflect player ratings. I never got into the next gen madden. I would play it for about a week, and just get rid of it. There was always something in each version that just didnt sit well with me.

You guys are very smart for adjusting on how to do sliders with what is given to you as a product.

Lets hope 2010 can head back to how it was in last gen where players reflected thier ratings.

[Segagendude]

Tyrant,PM for you.