Simulation: It's Meaning & Importance

[woowoo782]

simulation=gameplay to me

[TheCreep]

At this point, as far as simulation is concerned, I'm looking for realistic outcomes in regards to players height and weight. Tons of animations and t.v. style presentation is a major thing also. I haven't had many problems with exaggerated stats, my NCAA and Madden games always play out realistic in regards to stats.

Height and weight(physics) is the problem that really needs to be solved now. I cant stand seeing baby scat backs running over lineman or linebackers, or linebackers getting thrown around by recievers during run plays.

[johnprestonevans]

Good question. Simulation means capturing all of those elements you have discussed and representing them in an authentic way. Stats need to reflect those that we see in the real world. Meaning that sure there will be those big games with exagerated numbers and huge performances, but over time the average game should fall within "acceptable" limits. As many other posters have commented, so long as the gameplay and AI is tight, then highscoring or lowscoring games are totally acceptable. I think its the glitches and unrealistic BEHAVIOR of CPU teammates and opponents that take us out of the game. NEVER being able to get to the QB for a sack is unrealistic - especially where he always gets a hard accurate throw off no matter what the situation is. To me this is a poor simulation of real NFL football.

A lot of things need to be there to keep you drawn into the game. Simulating the NFL is exactly what Ian's team is now focusing on. "Everything you see on Sunday, See it in Madden NFL." Hopefully they will elaborate on what this means in the coming months. How are they working to acheive this goal? Im glued to Ian's weekly updates and encouraged by what ive seen so far. Simulating football means making it play, behave and LOOK like it does on TV. Authenticity is critical in all respects.

[Moostache]

Quote: Originally Posted by JMD

Simulation to me means how you play the game. Do you play the game the way it's played in real life - punting on 4th down, not dropping back 25 yards with the QB , or abusing glitch and cheese plays and so on.

I have to agree with this as a broad definition, but I would carry it a bit farther...HOW the player chooses to play is a crucial part of it, but nearly as important is how the GAME rewards the player for making solid "football" decisions. Still too many non-football moves are rewarded and the game suffers the same thing year after year...the move to PS3/XB360 still offers essentially the same gameplay as PS2/XB did. The added power of the platforms goes entirely to graphics and appearances instead of building a more complex and realistic simulation of the sport.

• Simulation means that running no-huddle would not AUTOMATICALLY give the offense an advantage on every play...

• Simulation means that fatigue is a real and persistent part of the game and that teams who do stupid things like run 5 fly patterns in a row off of no-huddle plays would find their WRs and OL dragging serious *** and unable to burn my grandmother!

• Simulation means that the number of plays in a game and score refect reality and not 35-31 shootouts in 5 minute quarters with fewer than 40 plays per team! (This one is tough because the balance between "fun" - ie. scoring - with "realism" - ie. games that actually feature the PUNTER and special teams play as crucial.

(One of the major turn-offs to online play and Madden in general is the almost complete lack of special teams play being essential to the out come of games...punting and FG kicking should be skills that are actually important - players should be rewarded more realistically (STILL) for playing field position and using accurate punting to control the field...too many times games continue to devolve into passing orgies that earn the label "videogame football" derivisely...)

• Simulation means that the QB's actual skill makes all the difference in the world (look at the SB winning TD pass...that ball was PERFECTLY thrown to a spot that only Holmes could get it), but being able to do that under pressure (and NOT having it be automatic on EVERY throw) is the kind of differentiation that continues to elude Madden and NCAA.

Although I will say this - NCAA does a better job of reflecting QB accuracy issues than Madden; and Madden HAS been improving - it is no where near as bad as it was just 3-4 years ago.... I guess the point is that it is INCREDIBLY difficult to program that kind of thing without inadvertantly creating a glitch that could and would be exploited mercilessly. My suggestion/wish would be to have those types of things happen very, very rarely in the game - kind of like the David Tyree catch animation in 2009...that is in the game but rarely ever seen...more of that would be a great addition. LMAO...so just come up with 1000s of additional animations that play only 3 or 4 times in 100,000 plays and you're GOLD!!!

[BezO]

Quote: Originally Posted by bucky60

Also.... I don't understand the guy that doesn't mind 300 yard rushing games and 600 yard passing games, as long as the plays look realistic. But I guess to each his own. A RARE record breaking day is OK, but at the end of the season, simmed and played statistics should be reasonable. Otherwise, a franchise mode is somewhat useless.

Unless you're talking about someone else, I didn't say weekly 300 yard rushing games & 500 yard passing games were OK.

[bucky60]

Quote: Originally Posted by BezO

Unless you're talking about someone else, I didn't say weekly 300 yard rushing games & 500 yard passing games were OK.

I don't remember who my comment was directed at, but if it was directed at you, then I apologize.

I just remember reading someone commenting that they don't mind 300 yard rushing games and 500 yard passing games as long as the animations and plays felt real, and I thought "this is what's wrong with Madden". If it was you, then sounds like I misunderstood what you were saying.

One of my other beefs about realism is the stats based progression. This just SO goes against realistic progression for all players on the field. It also encourages unrealistic game play.

[BezO]

Quote: Originally Posted by Moostache

I have to agree with this as a broad definition, but I would carry it a bit farther...HOW the player chooses to play is a crucial part of it, but nearly as important is how the GAME rewards the player for making solid "football" decisions. Still too many non-football moves are rewarded and the game suffers the same thing year after year...the move to PS3/XB360 still offers essentially the same gameplay as PS2/XB did. The added power of the platforms goes entirely to graphics and appearances instead of building a more complex and realistic simulation of the sport.

I feel users should be allowed to play however they want. I always cringe when I read posts about not allowing users to do certain things... kicking onside "when they shouldn't" comes to mind. IMO, it's the developer's responsibility to reward good football strategy, not reward bad strategy and program actual success ratios for certain things. So, if 1 of 5, well executed(good kicks), real life onside attempts are successful, that should be reflected in the game.

Quote: Originally Posted by Moostache

Simulation means that the number of plays in a game and score refect reality and not 35-31 shootouts in 5 minute quarters with fewer than 40 plays per team! (This one is tough because the balance between "fun" - ie. scoring - with "realism" - ie. games that actually feature the PUNTER and special teams play as crucial.

This is where I want the user to be forced to adjust the difficulty. Those that find fun in simulating the NFL shouldn't have to suffer because some find more fun in unrealistic play. And those looking for more "fun" shouldn't be stuck with a game that doesn't allow for regular shootouts either. Those shootout folks should be able to lower a defensive slider to get the experience they want. And that slider shouldn't make players stupid(stupid AI decisions). It should just allow them to be outplayed(more broken tackles, successful jukes, ect).



This is what I meant by scores, stats & difficulty not mattering to me. I should've worded it better. They do matter to me. I just don't think they should be forced on everyone. The only thing that should be forced on everyone is the realistic animations & AI. The game is billed as a simulation and anyone purchasing it should expect the game to play like it.

[Outkizast]

I think having all the "Stats" at the end of the game being realistic is cool... but in madden how we reach that point is not realistic... i want to see running backs punishing the defense for a few yards all game.. occasionally getting a 15 or 20 yarder here and there... i feel like in madden you can get the stats correct at the end of the game... but how it gets to that point is all wrong.. the flow of the game needs to be better implemented.. in madden it seems most the time if a running back runs for 100+ yds in a game, it's because he had at least one 60+ yd TD run... they need to make defensive players take better angles at stopping the ballcarrier.. i hate that i can run outside with a fast runningback and he can just fly up the sideline for a TD.. it would be fine if it happened rarely and only because the defense had a horrible play call for that situation... i wish Madden would cut down on all the "big" plays... turn the ones where people run free for a TD into 20 or 30 yards instead... it would allow for more defensive games....(Madden 2005, the best madden)... and i'm sick of pick 6's as well... it's cool to get an interception.. but its sad that whenever you do, you return it for a touchdown... it's unfortunate that i have to make up rules for myself like i cant pick off more than 2 passes a game.. i have to swat the ball down only if i do.... and i cannot have more than 1 INT return TD in a game... if i pick the ball off i have to run out of bounds... i have to do these things to make the game feel "sim".... if it happened more rarely.. i would have no problem having 2 or 3 INT returns for a TD in a game... but when it happens ALL the time... i feel like i'm cheating.....