Could the Madden Devs learn a thing or two from "MLB09: The Show"?

[johnprestonevans]

I dont want to offend or dissrespect any of the work Ian and Phil are doing with Madden. I think they made some great strides last year with the game and I feel that their new mantra hints at the idea EA is going to push Madden's sleepy presentation into the same arena as other sports games.

Madden definately could learn a few things from the developers of MLB09 The Show and NBA2K9. Atmosphere and presentation are critical components of a great sports game. As sports in general I find baseball to be a little slow, and basketball to be a little repetitive, but I LOVE those aformentioned sports videogames because they FEEL and LOOK like they do on TV. They are excellent representations of the sports they are simulating.

Its the high gloss polish that MLB has now that sets it apart. The cameras, the animations, the cutscenes, the commentary, the highlights, the crowds and all the little things in between. I know EA is capable of rendering this type of realism on the gridiron.

If I could have any wish on the videogame calendar this year come true, it would be for Madden 10 to bring this kind of authenticity of NFL football to home consoles. I almost want to buy a PS3 to get MLB09 The Show because it looks SO realistic - and im really NOT a big baseball fan. I just love great sports games. All my hopes for Madden 10!

[ch46647]

Quote: Originally Posted by johnprestonevans

I dont want to offend or dissrespect any of the work Ian and Phil are doing with Madden. I think they made some great strides last year with the game and I feel that their new mantra hints at the idea EA is going to push Madden's sleepy presentation into the same arena as other sports games. Madden definately could learn a few things from the developers of MLB09 The Show and NBA2K9. Atmosphere and presentation are critical components of a great sports game. As sports in general I find baseball to be a little slow, and basketball to be a little repetitive, but I LOVE those aformentioned sports videogames because they FEEL and LOOK like they do on TV. They are excellent representations of the sports they are simulating. Its the high gloss polish that MLB has now that sets it apart. The cameras, the animations, the cutscenes, the commentary, the highlights, the crowds and all the little things in between. I know EA is capable of rendering this type of realism on the gridiron. If I could have any wish on the videogame calendar this year come true, it would be for Madden 10 to bring this kind of authenticity of NFL football to home consoles. I almost want to buy a PS3 to get MLB09 The Show because it looks SO realistic - and im really NOT a big baseball fan. I just love great sports games. All my hopes for Madden 10!

I could not agree anymore with this! Well put sir

[Bodizzy]

As a few have already said, I don't think Ian and Phil and the gang have anything to learn from other developers, but any crew buckling up to develop a sports game who sits down with The Show or NBA 2K9 should feel the gauntlet has been thrown down. Those are immersive, well-honed titles that possess tight, smooth gameplay, solid AI, beautiful graphics, deep, feature-rich franchise modes, etc. The level of realism and authenticity, along with the thoroughness of quality of almost every aspect of the games, should be something to strive for (especially knowing it can be attained).

But designing a football game is tougher than designing a baseball or bastketball game, I would think. I don't know, since I don't design games, but you have more characters doing more things at once than either of those other sports. I'm not making any excuses for a football game to come up short, trust me, but if the guys at EA nail football the way SCEA and 2K have nailed baseball and basketball, I will consider it a greater accopmlishment.

[RogueHominid]

An interesting topic, and a good one because the point of comparison is in another sport.

My .02 is yes. The Show pulls you in and never lets you go. There's an initial glitz factor that's impressive, but it's the sheer and overwhelming number of "little things" that keeps you coming back for hundreds of games. It's also the raw, sport-specific intelligence of the developers. Reading the Community Day feedback from The Show 09 convinced me that those guys are not only brilliant programmers and designers, but they're tireless researchers of the sport.

Because The Show's little things are obviously specific to baseball, I wonder how some of them might be translated to football . . .

And thinking about it a little more, I wonder if Madden is ready to try to do some of those little things. It seems to me like the team is still working on getting some of the most basic things about the game right. That's a wonderful thing, btw! But right now it's about removing that ridiculous and ubiquitous spin catch, making it so players actually have to come out of a spin and plant their feet before they can spin again, trying to think through how to implement awareness so players can't constantly make plays they can't see.

To me, those things (and there are more) have to be nailed before the other stuff that immerses you into the atmosphere of the game can be successfully implemented. I would play the heck out of this game if the very basic stuff was right.

Not that it's totally an either/or scenario, but there are limited hands and priority issues.

The good news from my perspective is that Ian seems like just the guy to get the game where it needs to be over the span of a few years.

[The Sim God]

Quote: Originally Posted by The Autumn Wind

An interesting topic, and a good one because the point of comparison is in another sport. My .02 is yes. The Show pulls you in and never lets you go. There's an initial glitz factor that's impressive, but it's the sheer and overwhelming number of "little things" that keeps you coming back for hundreds of games. It's also the raw, sport-specific intelligence of the developers. Reading the Community Day feedback from The Show 09 convinced me that those guys are not only brilliant programmers and designers, but they're tireless researchers of the sport. Because The Show's little things are obviously specific to baseball, I wonder how some of them might be translated to football . . . And thinking about it a little more, I wonder if Madden is ready to try to do some of those little things. It seems to me like the team is still working on getting some of the most basic things about the game right. That's a wonderful thing, btw! But right now it's about removing that ridiculous and ubiquitous spin catch, making it so players actually have to come out of a spin and plant their feet before they can spin again, trying to think through how to implement awareness so players can't constantly make plays they can't see. To me, those things (and there are more) have to be nailed before the other stuff that immerses you into the atmosphere of the game can be successfully implemented. I would play the heck out of this game if the very basic stuff was right. Not that it's totally an either/or scenario, but there are limited hands and priority issues. The good news from my perspective is that Ian seems like just the guy to get the game where it needs to be over the span of a few years.

The Show is made for the SIM CROWD

madden is made for the "pick up and play/average" gamer

that alone is the difference, a HIGE ONE but its the difference

make madden for the SIM CROWD and force the cheesers to adjust, not like how it has been where the sim players have to adjust

[Papi34]

Quote: Originally Posted by thudias

The Show is not released yet..Are basing all your thoughts on a demo?

I was actually basing my thoughts on the 08 game, I only mentioned the demo as it had just come out and got me thinking about the presentation again. Though, as a few have said, the demo really does look like a big improvement on an already fantastic game.

[Papi34]

Also, I'd like to reiterate that I really enjoyed Madden 09 and have actually enjoyed every years game, though some more than others. I've probably played it more than The Show as well, simply because football is by far my favourite sport.
In no way was I bashing Ian or any of the team or suggesting that this years game would be a letdown. I have a heck of a lot of respect for them, especially by coming on here and opening themselves up the way they have. Personally, I believe this years game will live up to the promise because of the work they've done and the willingness to listen to the community. [/end brownnose}

I was more making the comparison with last years Madden and it's presentation. Because as much as I enjoyed the game, it's presentation was put to shame by The Show, and NBA 2K9 for that matter. Again in my opinion.
Like others, if Madden 2010 was the NFL version of those games it might just make me do a sex wee. If it doesn't, I'll still get it and I'm sure I'll enjoy it.

Just trying to generate some healthy discussion which has been very interesting to read!

[LAKE4742]

Quote: Originally Posted by The Sim God

The Show is made for the SIM CROWD madden is made for the "pick up and play/average" gamer that alone is the difference, a HIGE ONE but its the difference make madden for the SIM CROWD and force the cheesers to adjust, not like how it has been where the sim players have to adjust

Ahhhh, well said. Truly, developers just don't get it. All of sudden, they all thought noob-friendly gaming was the way to go, and most tried dumbing everything down. NOW, they see that's not the way to go at all. Yeah, the Wii sold well, but how many Wii owners consistently play? All of these "casual" gamers-with their HD tv's, and surround sound set-ups are not so "casual" after all.
Developers really need to understand, ALL gamers want realistic graphics, skillful and deep gameplay, and authentic presentation. THAT's what sells consistently, and keeps the gaming market thriving. Not cute and cuddly.
Take away hardcore sim gamers and graphics whores, and watch gaming die a horrible death.