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Speed is King: It's not rebalance ratings that'll fix it

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Old 02-13-2009, 09:39 AM   #33
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Re: Speed is King: It's not rebalance ratings that'll fix it

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Originally Posted by LBzrule
See this is where I think they need to follow 2k when 2k had the numbers ratings. In your example, let's say I'm playing 2k4. Patrick Surtan on that game had a 91 speed I believe. But his coverage rating was 97 or so. No WR could beat him even though they may have had a higher speed rating. His coverage rating negated their speed. But now, if someone by chance caught it and got in front of him, their speed won out. But his coverage rating made it damn near impossible for alot of guys to catch the ball or get any separation. If you had a RB that had a higher speed rating and you got pass him then the speed of the RB would win out because Surtan was slower and his pursuit was not great. EA needs a more complex formula. I've said it in a thread way back when I talked about having a pass rush rating and some other ratings.

Yeah, but 2K cheats a little bit. At least in APF, if you have Jerry Riced matched up with anybody, their coverage ratings will take a hit and they simply become his play thing. If Woodson is matched up with anybody, their RTRN rating takes a hit and they suck. In the end it works, but the means are ugly sometimes.

It really starts with animations and physics. Good route runners should use timing, body control, quickness, discipline, and a sense of unpredictability. Do you see all these things when a Madden WR runs its route? For a good coverage guy, it's about leverage, your role in the coverage, head placement, and body control. Do you get these things when you see a Madden DB?
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Old 02-16-2009, 11:31 PM   #34
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Re: Speed is King: It's not rebalance ratings that'll fix it

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Originally Posted by Inspiration
My two cents:

You seem to be focused on the fact that the main downside to a receiver being a poor route-runner is that they run wrong routes and are frequently in the wrong place at the wrong time. While there are certainly wrong routes run during NFL games, I always thought the main advantage gained by being an elite route runner was separation from defenders. A receiver who curves off his route or doesn't properly sell the route can't get separation because the defender can simply run with him across the field. A good route runner makes sharp changes in directions and doesn't tip off his route, forcing the defender to hesitate in order to properly determine which direction the receiver going. While a high route-running ability might determine the occurrance of an occasional wrong-route, to me, route-running is much more important in its ability to allow a receiver who isn't necessarily more athletic than the defender to still get separation.

I'm not saying that you are wrong (in fact, it's a good idea) but in the NFL, incorrect routes run by a receiver aren't extremely common (that's not say they don't happen though). Unless they get redirected by a defender, receivers are more often than not in the right place on the field. As I mentioned, I do like the idea, but I would hope that something as significant as QB awareness might have a larger effect than just this on the game.
I'm not talking wrong routes, I'm talking imperfect routes. Rounded cuts, poor depth... the biggest reason some receivers fail, and the biggest reason some receivers become legends.

It's one aspect of the whole, it wouldn't be the be all-end all.
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Old 02-17-2009, 01:41 AM   #35
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Re: Speed is King: It's not rebalance ratings that'll fix it

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Originally Posted by adembroski
I'm not talking wrong routes, I'm talking imperfect routes. Rounded cuts, poor depth... the biggest reason some receivers fail, and the biggest reason some receivers become legends.

It's one aspect of the whole, it wouldn't be the be all-end all.
All Pro does this really well with their wrs.
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Old 02-17-2009, 05:33 AM   #36
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Re: Speed is King: It's not rebalance ratings that'll fix it

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Originally Posted by grunt
All Pro does this really well with their wrs.
And of what value is that to me? I don't mean to come off as hostile, I know you mean well here, but quite honestly, the 2k/APF talk has run it's course. Yes, I own APF, yes, I have enjoyed it at times, but honestly, how much credit can you give a sports game that didn't even bother to include anything resembling long term replayability?

Not to mention, being an ex-coach myself, I cannot stand playing with the crap playbooks they have. They are, at best, out dated, at worst, random bull**** the developers pulled out of their none-too-football-savvy minds. 2k has always been light years behind Madden in this department, and to someone who has a modicum of knowledge of what NFL playbooks consist of, it's an insult. Most of the plays that ARE based on some actual offensive concept are repeated ad-nauseum in different forms throughout the playbooks so you feel like you're just running the same play over and over again.

I'm not saying Madden's playbooks are outstanding by any means, but there really is no comparison. To me, APFs playbooks and lack of a franchise mode are absolute game killers.

Not to mention the lack of any differentiation between players that aren't stars. The gameplay tuning is lacking, and sliders don't seem of fix the coverage flaws... and coverage is HEAVILY flawed.

Is APF better than Madden 09? Maybe, but not by the leaps and bounds people make it out to be. The glorification of that franchise is based on presentation and animations (and only in terms of making realistic looking replays)... there are no other aspects of the game that are appreciably better than Madden.
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Old 02-17-2009, 08:03 AM   #37
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Re: Speed is King: It's not rebalance ratings that'll fix it

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Originally Posted by adembroski
And of what value is that to me? I don't mean to come off as hostile, I know you mean well here, but quite honestly, the 2k/APF talk has run it's course. Yes, I own APF, yes, I have enjoyed it at times, but honestly, how much credit can you give a sports game that didn't even bother to include anything resembling long term replayability?

Not to mention, being an ex-coach myself, I cannot stand playing with the crap playbooks they have. They are, at best, out dated, at worst, random bull**** the developers pulled out of their none-too-football-savvy minds. 2k has always been light years behind Madden in this department, and to someone who has a modicum of knowledge of what NFL playbooks consist of, it's an insult. Most of the plays that ARE based on some actual offensive concept are repeated ad-nauseum in different forms throughout the playbooks so you feel like you're just running the same play over and over again.

I'm not saying Madden's playbooks are outstanding by any means, but there really is no comparison. To me, APFs playbooks and lack of a franchise mode are absolute game killers.

Not to mention the lack of any differentiation between players that aren't stars. The gameplay tuning is lacking, and sliders don't seem of fix the coverage flaws... and coverage is HEAVILY flawed.

Is APF better than Madden 09? Maybe, but not by the leaps and bounds people make it out to be. The glorification of that franchise is based on presentation and animations (and only in terms of making realistic looking replays)... there are no other aspects of the game that are appreciably better than Madden.
Dude, call your mind in. You went off on an apparent tangent for no reason. All he said was that APF did well in a highlighted area and you damn near bit his head off for it. Get a grip.
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Old 02-17-2009, 02:50 PM   #38
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Re: Speed is King: It's not rebalance ratings that'll fix it

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Originally Posted by rgiles36
Dude, call your mind in. You went off on an apparent tangent for no reason. All he said was that APF did well in a highlighted area and you damn near bit his head off for it. Get a grip.
I made my intent and the fact that I did not want to come off as hostile in the first paragraph. I just figured it's about time someone mentioned the flaws in APF/2k as well. People keeps rattling the damn game case about like a sabre everytime something's suggested or mentioned to have been added to Madden.

I realize he wasn't being a dick about it, and I tried to make it clear there was no ill-will toward him, he just gave me the vehicle to say some **** I wanted to say. I haven't seen much of the dude, but from what I've seen he's a decent poster, and I have nothing against the guy at all, and I'm sorry it came off that way.
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