*Possible* blog about QB play tommorow

[ewto16]

Quote: Originally Posted by Guillotine 1

Joe Montana Steve Young John Elway Randall Cunningham S. McNair D. McNabb B. Farve D. Marino W. Moon D. Brees Even so called pocket passers move very well in/around the LOS, the rush to label & classify QB's who tend to do this more (or who will take off and run more often) has always been apart of football...so has the use of specific plays to take advantage of these unique skill sets that some QB's have. The funny thing is, most QB's use these kinds of plays anyway...coaches call these plays to catch the defense unaware, and it helps to slow down the pass rush.

Are you talking about guys that move a lot and throw on the run, like Vick did and guys like Vince Young do now? Scrambling QBs?

Plenty of the guys you listed above are not scramblers by any sense of the word (Montana, Brees) and more than a few are known for being stone statues (Favre, Marino, Moon).

I just don't understand what you are trying to get at as you lump in guys that were running/scramblin QB (Young, Elway, Cunningham, McNabb) with the other guys who didn't do that at all.

[Phobia]

guillotine, how are you going to say Brees is better outside the pocket??????

This is just a silly comment, he is the definition of a POCKET QB.

Then further more, you made some weird comments. How can you say a QB is more accurate on the run???? So why are pitchers standing on the mound, shoudn't they be running over from first to wing the ball at the batter?

Bottom line is ANYONE will have more control and accuracy STANDING STILL. Sure buying time outside the pocket will help pick apart the defense. But as far as passes ON TARGET, no QB is better running than standing still.

[Guillotine 1]

Quote: Originally Posted by ewto16

Are you talking about guys that move a lot and throw on the run, like Vick did and guys like Vince Young do now? Scrambling QBs? Plenty of the guys you listed above are not scramblers by any sense of the word (Montana, Brees) and more than a few are known for being stone statues (Favre, Marino, Moon). I just don't understand what you are trying to get at as you lump in guys that were running/scramblin QB (Young, Elway, Cunningham, McNabb) with the other guys who didn't do that at all.

Sorry bro, you'll have to read it again. I don't want to hyjack the thread or troll the forum.

[Guillotine 1]

Quote: Originally Posted by Phobia

guillotine, how are you going to say Brees is better outside the pocket?????? This is just a silly comment, he is the definition of a POCKET QB. Then further more, you made some weird comments. How can you say a QB is more accurate on the run???? So why are pitchers standing on the mound, shoudn't they be running over from first to wing the ball at the batter? Bottom line is ANYONE will have more control and accuracy STANDING STILL. Sure buying time outside the pocket will help pick apart the defense. But as far as passes ON TARGET, no QB is better running than standing still.

Again, just reseach QB stats on the move...I'm becoming the focus of the thread instead of the OP's topic...and for that reason I really want to get back on topic guys...

[kcarr]

Quote: Originally Posted by Guillotine 1

You have not even see every passer to ever play, so to make that statement is just ridiculous imo. To say nobody ever, never, always, or only...just sets you up to be proven wrong because people are far more dynamic, complex, and ever changing to fit into such boxes. I can give you a list of QB's who statisically did much better outside the pocket (meaning outside the tackles, moving) than inside the pocket ( as you say standing still)...prepare to be blown away buddy... Joe Montana Steve Young John Elway Randall Cunningham S. McNair D. McNabb B. Farve D. Marino W. Moon D. Brees In the last 20 years, these QB's have had more success thowing on the move than they have standing upright in the pocket. They have compiled more yards, completions, attempts, TD's, Ints, and incompletions from outside the pocket then they have inside the pocket. The reason? Pockets breakdown fast, and more often than not a QB has to move and throw from on the move than he does standing in a clean pocket. Its called defensive pressure. Research it... Even so called pocket passers move very well in/around the LOS, the rush to label & classify QB's who tend to do this more (or who will take off and run more often) has always been apart of football...so has the use of specific plays to take advantage of these unique skill sets that some QB's have. The funny thing is, most QB's use these kinds of plays anyway...coaches call these plays to catch the defense unaware, and it helps to slow down the pass rush.

There is a difference between throwing on the run and throwing outside the pocket. Also, the idea that they are "more accurate" outside the pocket just because they have better stats out there is wrong.

As for the difference between throwing on the run and throwing outside the pocket when the guy mentions throwing on the run I am pretty sure he means throwing while still in motion as opposed to moving, setting up, and then throwing. You can set up and throw anywhere behind the LOS and you can be moving and throw anywhere back there to regardless of whether you are still in the pocket.

A lot of why some QBs can be more successful outside the pocket has to do with time to throw, time for receivers to get open, not having to throw over the entire DLine opening up different passing lanes, throwing from a different location changing the angle at which you can hit your receiver and changing the position the DB would need to be in to defend the pass etc. It is not because they can throw the ball more accurately while throwing from a different location

[Phobia]

Quote: Originally Posted by Guillotine 1

Again, just reseach QB stats on the move...I'm becoming the focus of the thread instead of the OP's topic...and for that reason I really want to get back on topic guys...

Don't have to research stats. It is a fact. The human body then has to calculate, momentum, gravity, speed, human body movement (limited throwing angles), etc

Then put him standing still and all he has to calculate is the WR momentum, speed of travel, postion, gravity, etc.

You add in the QB's movement and it just naturally makes it harder to complete. Multiple outside forces = to more calculating WHICH then = HARDER

Physics 101

[kcarr]

Quote: Originally Posted by ewto16

Are you talking about guys that move a lot and throw on the run, like Vick did and guys like Vince Young do now? Scrambling QBs? Plenty of the guys you listed above are not scramblers by any sense of the word (Montana, Brees) and more than a few are known for being stone statues (Favre, Marino, Moon). I just don't understand what you are trying to get at as you lump in guys that were running/scramblin QB (Young, Elway, Cunningham, McNabb) with the other guys who didn't do that at all.

Yes, some of those players are not known for running but they still use rollouts and plays designed to move the pocket or plays where they do have to move around a little to change passing lanes or buy their receivers time

[kcarr]

Quote: Originally Posted by Guillotine 1

QB's move because of the pass rush. This is why most coaches want to establish the defnesive line first, they know that the longer the secondary has to cover people, the higher the chances are of the ball being comepleted...this is why QB's are statistically better when they buy more time. No trying to be a know-it-all...just speaking to truth.

Exactly, they are not more accurate on the run, it is the outside forces that make that pass easier to complete that lead to higher completion percentages