Concerned about "jostling" animation

[dannydufflebags]

If any of the developers want to , I suggest to open practice mode, and start by running a slot streak pattern with Andre Johnson, against the cowboys (random defense) And tell me why he CANNOT get any separation from LB Greg Ellis??

I noticed in the blog, there was a comment about the WR's getting open to easy on streaks, and that was one reason why you guys were adding in those ultra cool "jostling" animations. I just see this as slowing down elite speed guys.

My problem is, I notice that the only way a fast receiver can beat a slower DB, is when the QB has a rocket arm, and the separation begins after the ball is thrown. Why can't I consistently hit say, Andre Johnson (97 speed) over the top against 89 speed Lito Sheppard, man to man, when my human opponent comes out in a 4-6 and brings Dawkins up to the LOS???? This to me makes no sense. Schaub may have average arm strength , but any NFL QB can make that throw.

Now if it was Vincent Jackson against a same spped rated CB, in the same situation, he will hit it every time, because Rivers arm is slightly better than Schaub's. Now I am not a Texans fan, so not making a rating's case here. I am making a case for the mechanics to be fixed.

An Elite WR should win these types of one on one matchups a huge majority of the time, unless covered by a top 3 NFL CB.

[jaiy360]

Don't worry, a larger speed scale will fix that.

[Von Dozier]

Seems like people are completely forgetting about ratings. Every single WR/DB will not partake in the same exact action seen in the beta videos Ian posted. Ratings will make a difference in ways we haven't seen yet, which makes it pointless to dog it until we know more.

[nexdawg]

Quote: Originally Posted by Von Dozier

Seems like people are completely forgetting about ratings. Every single WR/DB will not partake in the same exact action seen in the beta videos Ian posted. Ratings will make a difference in ways we haven't seen yet, which makes it pointless to dog it until we know more.

According to that post somebody of Andre Johnson's size and speed will be a nightmare for CB's like he is in real life and im assuming his route running ratings will be pretty high! This year is shaping up to be a masterpiece and think all they had to do was listen!

[Tyrant8RDFL]

The animation that was shown is just a small sample.

Alot goes into account when seperation is caused, and sometimes what makes the difference is when someone gets going before his opponent, and then the amount of field/time needed to catch up is another story.

All because someone is faster doesnt mean he will always get by his man and toast him. Lets say Lilo sheppard reconizes that Andre Johnson is going to run a streak and gets going right away, Andre isnt going to get by him, now if Andre gets going before Lilo can reconize a steak is coming then yea Andre is gone.

Its not easy to get behind a defense alot has to play into it in most cases. Other routes help setup the opening for such a thing and these other routes make a db hesistate just enough that a Wr now runs by them, but for a Wr to just run right downfield and run by a DB. Now that rarely happens.

Example.
In the superbowl Fitzgerald showed speed I never knew he had when he caught that slant pass and went all the way. On that play the defenders jumped other routes and that caused the room and time needed for fitzgerald to catch that pass and get going before the safeties can, but all game long he couldnt run by the defense on a simple streak.
Its not going to happen, and when Fitzgerald ran on that TD he showed he was much faster than the steeler secondary.

[wheelman990]

I admitt, one amazing thing about 2k5 is when a receiver runs a certain speed(straight route, slant, etc), he stays that speed. So does the defensive player gaurding him. This makes it very realistic as when a player is open, the defensive players dont turn on there magic after burners and make a miracle play. True, some of the ellite fast Db's might speed up and make a break on the ball like this, but not anyone of them the computer wants to break up the play(or INT).

[Madwolf]

The definitely need to fix certain aspects of the game. For instance, Steve Smith cannot go deep and win against any DB on a streak route. He simply gets "stuck" behind whatever 87 speed DB is guarding him and won't go around him.

[Spartan_1]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tyrant8RDFL

All because someone is faster doesnt mean he will always get by his man and toast him. Lets say Lilo sheppard reconizes that Andre Johnson is going to run a streak and gets going right away, Andre isnt going to get by him, now if Andre gets going before Lilo can reconize a steak is coming then yea Andre is gone. Its not easy to get behind a defense alot has to play into it in most cases. Other routes help setup the opening for such a thing and these other routes make a db hesistate just enough that a Wr now runs by them, but for a Wr to just run right downfield and run by a DB. Now that rarely happens.

Excellent point Tyrant.

Another thing to keep in mind is that receivers are not always going at their full max speed. There are a lot of reasons they don't like fatigue as one example. It is hard to see sometimes but a lot of times you can see guys speed up or slow down to adjust to where the pass was thrown. That is one of the reasons you see in real games a defender catch up and make a play on a ball at the last second. No this is not why it happens in madden.

But in real life a guy with blazing speed, a lot of times will not even get bumped at the line. The CB will play way way off him and let him run upfield. And then he will have a safety over the top helping.

I am a little bit concerned about this jostling. The fact that they are putting it in and the way they have been talking, i think they will get it right. I just think 6 or 7 years ago it may have been THE thing that made this game unbelievable. But now in the nfl there are times when it seems like if the defender even breathes on the receiver after 5 yards he will get called for illegal contact. But one thing that has never changed in real nfl is that the best defenders with a reputation of being one of the best, STill get away with murder and always have. How many times did Deion sanders get away with holding receivers hands down.

I was hoping to hear a little more about zone coverage though. Maybe we will get some info on this in some of the threads because it is still wr/db play. I would like to see the DB AI stick with the biggest threat that comes into his zone and I don't mean threat = talent. I mean he would give up a pass to the shortest route and stick with the guy that is deepest if 2 or more receivers come through his zone. Also, A defender should ALWAYS stick with a reciever and stay with him when he leaves his zone if nobody is able to pick him up when he is entering the next zone. Like when a recever runs a post and clears the safety, a cb should not let a guy run past him and let him go just because he is leaving his zone. He is still the number 1 threat.