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e0820 · 03-11-2009, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings_EA


	So what do you guys think? As we move to the future, what is more important to you? Would you rather have the extra details (like the holes in the jerseys), or much less details on the players and the environment and more extra characters (that animate in a smarter manner) around the playing field? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

I would vote for more environment details over small player details. I would be more immersed in the game if the environment around the field seemed alive. At the very least make the sideline players represent the players going on and off the field instead of numerous stamped players. I would rather have that then an extra photographer or cheerleader.

AboveTheRim · 03-11-2009, 03:02 PM

When i am watching NFL Football on sundays i do not see 1995 Madden PC Players on the sideline doing nothing but clapping or Media people such as camera men, Security guards etc staying in the same position for a whole game. I love all the work EA has done so far with making gameplay much better but ever since last April's Draft when EA showed us what the First round draft picks would look like in madden i noticed one thing, the sidelines. I Really Thought Madden 10 would have "Everything you See on Sundays" like we were told at the Halftime of a great superbowl.

Golden28 · 03-11-2009, 03:27 PM

I think that going forward Madden should definately give up on some of the starting player detail and look into bringing the whole stadium alive.

We have all seen what Madden can do with player models and it's impressive, but at the expense of all the other stadium details? I don't think it's worth it.

Now that we know both exquisitely detailed player models AND sidelines/crowd are a hardware impossibility (Thanks for the explanation Ian) I'm all for waiting for the next generation of consoles to see them both in action, and in hi res, together. So let's use this generation of consoles to lay the presentation foundations for the next.

By that I mean, instead of just having ultra high detail player models now and then developing the sidelines when the PS4/X720 comes out, let's start in Madden11.

Let's lay the foundations of the fully interactive sidelines/crowd now (in lower detail admittedly, yes) so that when the next gen of consoles arrive, all that is needed will be that glorious step into super high detail for all areas of the game, players, refs, chain, crowd, hell, even the dog sellers.

One way of appeasing the graphics junkies for now could be to have a collage of both interactive sidelines and cut scenes. So you could have, say, Marion Barber pushed out of bounds and into the sideline of the Baltimore Ravens, which would all happen in realtime, albeit with less detailed graphics than now. As per APF2k8 the sideline would react realistically, all in realtime, and then as Barber started to turn to come back into the field of play, a cut scene could play out (not in realtime) where the glorious graphics of the players could be shown in close up as Barber and Ravens players mouth off at eachother.

Doing it this way you get the best of both worlds; an interactive, immersive, realistic sideline and the ability to show off some nice player detail, close up whilst also adding again to the immersion/realism factor.

Outkizast · 03-11-2009, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigsmallwood


	Ian, I would think that your Madden 10 mantra of " Everything You See on Sunday...." should apply here. NFL 2K5 NAILED the celebrations, chain gang, commentary, sideline animations and of course play off AND Super Bowl presentation....that was LAST GEN. Who cares about seeing the holes in a jersey...I DON'T see that when I am watching a game on TV...I DO see the sideline interaction after a touchdown...a gamechanging turnover....the crowd going crazy on 3rd down...or a crucial 4th down play...the crowd levels throughout the playoffs...coaches slamming clipboards...arguments on the sideline etc....THIS HAS TO BE possible on next gen Madden 10'....nobody wants to see Asante Samuels sweat...we wanna be immersed in the atmosphere of football...thats one of the biggest things about football...and thats why people loved 2K Football...and even NBA 2K9...just an honest opinion.

You must not have HD

haha but seriously i agree with you 100%

SeventhWard · 03-11-2009, 06:53 PM

I work as an editor on a reality show right now. Since my episodes are taking place at a big event with literally thousands of people in attendance, my producers are always reminding me to "Show the Universe!" - their way of making sure I cut in plenty of shots of that huge crowd to remind my audience that what they're watching is epic.

I think the same exact princicple applies to Pro Football, and in turn Madden NFL video games. When I boot up a game of Madden, yes I'm looking for the authentic action of a football game but I'm also looking for a taste of that NFL Universe.

One of the characteristics of Pro Football that makes it so enjoyable to me is that every play is EPIC. Statistically, there's no difference between a 3rd down conversion in an NFL game or a High School Football game - however, the difference lies in the atmosphere. The fact that there's 60,000 screaming fans, a hundred guys on the sidelines, cameras, and a team of 7 officials trying to control it all elevates that simple 3rd Down Conversion in the NFL into an EPIC MOMENT, witnessed by millions.

When I read that EA got those new portable Motion Capture Suits that would allow them to capture without going all the way to Vancouver, I got excited. I imagined developers putting on the suits and mimicking a whole bunch of sideline animations...taping ankles, players being hydrated, coaches talking to players on the bench.

While I am VERY happy to read about the improvements being made to Madden's gameplay, I am a little disappointed to hear what that "detail philosophy" has been in years past - because I disagree with it. Focusing solely on 22 guys is looking at the little picture. GTAIV may not be the highest resolution game in my library, but when it starts to rain and the citizens scatter for shelter, you can't tell me it's not cool.

Ian, it's very refreshing to know that you share the same philosophy on immersion that many gamers do. However, at this point in the Dev Cycle - we're all sharing our viewpoints but what can be done?

-SeventhWard

ch46647 · 03-11-2009, 07:05 PM

Absolutely FANTASTIC post!!!! You pretty much nailed every aspect of what makes the NFL so great!

Vikes1 · 03-11-2009, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigsmallwood


	Ian, I would think that your Madden 10 mantra of " Everything You See on Sunday...." should apply here. NFL 2K5 NAILED the celebrations, chain gang, commentary, sideline animations and of course play off AND Super Bowl presentation....that was LAST GEN. Who cares about seeing the holes in a jersey...I DON'T see that when I am watching a game on TV...I DO see the sideline interaction after a touchdown...a gamechanging turnover....the crowd going crazy on 3rd down...or a crucial 4th down play...the crowd levels throughout the playoffs...coaches slamming clipboards...arguments on the sideline etc....THIS HAS TO BE possible on next gen Madden 10'....nobody wants to see Asante Samuels sweat...we wanna be immersed in the atmosphere of football...thats one of the biggest things about football...and thats why people loved 2K Football...and even NBA 2K9...just an honest opinion.

An honest opinion I completely agree with. Great post!

As Bigsmallwood said above...this just has to be possible. If this takes sacrificing extreme player model detail, I'm all for it.

TDogg09 · 03-11-2009, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rckinAPhilliezhat


	Please dont tell me we have to wait another year for this now..you had me pumped ian..There has to be something you can do..If you can only do one..work on the crowds first in realtime and just have cutscene sidelines..dont leave us hangin ian.

I agree. I really hope something can be done still. Ian said the real-time stuff won't be in Madden 10, but hopefully the sidelines are better than they have been.

PS-even though it wasn't as good graphically, All-Pro 2K8 was still extremely detailed. It had holes in the jersey too. And rain drops on the players helmets, in addition to real-time sidelines

03-11-2009, 03:02 PM	#58
AboveTheRim Banned OVR: 17 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Long Island, New York	Re: Outside the football field When i am watching NFL Football on sundays i do not see 1995 Madden PC Players on the sideline doing nothing but clapping or Media people such as camera men, Security guards etc staying in the same position for a whole game. I love all the work EA has done so far with making gameplay much better but ever since last April's Draft when EA showed us what the First round draft picks would look like in madden i noticed one thing, the sidelines. I Really Thought Madden 10 would have "Everything you See on Sundays" like we were told at the Halftime of a great superbowl.

03-11-2009, 03:27 PM	#59
Golden28 Rookie OVR: 15 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Brighton	Re: Outside the football field I think that going forward Madden should definately give up on some of the starting player detail and look into bringing the whole stadium alive. We have all seen what Madden can do with player models and it's impressive, but at the expense of all the other stadium details? I don't think it's worth it. Now that we know both exquisitely detailed player models AND sidelines/crowd are a hardware impossibility (Thanks for the explanation Ian) I'm all for waiting for the next generation of consoles to see them both in action, and in hi res, together. So let's use this generation of consoles to lay the presentation foundations for the next. By that I mean, instead of just having ultra high detail player models now and then developing the sidelines when the PS4/X720 comes out, let's start in Madden11. Let's lay the foundations of the fully interactive sidelines/crowd now (in lower detail admittedly, yes) so that when the next gen of consoles arrive, all that is needed will be that glorious step into super high detail for all areas of the game, players, refs, chain, crowd, hell, even the dog sellers. One way of appeasing the graphics junkies for now could be to have a collage of both interactive sidelines and cut scenes. So you could have, say, Marion Barber pushed out of bounds and into the sideline of the Baltimore Ravens, which would all happen in realtime, albeit with less detailed graphics than now. As per APF2k8 the sideline would react realistically, all in realtime, and then as Barber started to turn to come back into the field of play, a cut scene could play out (not in realtime) where the glorious graphics of the players could be shown in close up as Barber and Ravens players mouth off at eachother. Doing it this way you get the best of both worlds; an interactive, immersive, realistic sideline and the ability to show off some nice player detail, close up whilst also adding again to the immersion/realism factor.

03-11-2009, 06:53 PM	#61
SeventhWard Rookie OVR: 16 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Los Angeles, CA Blog Entries: 5	Re: Outside the football field I work as an editor on a reality show right now. Since my episodes are taking place at a big event with literally thousands of people in attendance, my producers are always reminding me to "Show the Universe!" - their way of making sure I cut in plenty of shots of that huge crowd to remind my audience that what they're watching is epic. I think the same exact princicple applies to Pro Football, and in turn Madden NFL video games. When I boot up a game of Madden, yes I'm looking for the authentic action of a football game but I'm also looking for a taste of that NFL Universe. One of the characteristics of Pro Football that makes it so enjoyable to me is that every play is EPIC. Statistically, there's no difference between a 3rd down conversion in an NFL game or a High School Football game - however, the difference lies in the atmosphere. The fact that there's 60,000 screaming fans, a hundred guys on the sidelines, cameras, and a team of 7 officials trying to control it all elevates that simple 3rd Down Conversion in the NFL into an EPIC MOMENT, witnessed by millions. When I read that EA got those new portable Motion Capture Suits that would allow them to capture without going all the way to Vancouver, I got excited. I imagined developers putting on the suits and mimicking a whole bunch of sideline animations...taping ankles, players being hydrated, coaches talking to players on the bench. While I am VERY happy to read about the improvements being made to Madden's gameplay, I am a little disappointed to hear what that "detail philosophy" has been in years past - because I disagree with it. Focusing solely on 22 guys is looking at the little picture. GTAIV may not be the highest resolution game in my library, but when it starts to rain and the citizens scatter for shelter, you can't tell me it's not cool. Ian, it's very refreshing to know that you share the same philosophy on immersion that many gamers do. However, at this point in the Dev Cycle - we're all sharing our viewpoints but what can be done? -SeventhWard

03-11-2009, 07:05 PM	#62
ch46647 MVP OVR: 15 Join Date: Aug 2006	Re: Outside the football field Absolutely FANTASTIC post!!!! You pretty much nailed every aspect of what makes the NFL so great!

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