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Player uniqueness VERY IMPORTANT

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Old 03-13-2009, 04:40 PM   #1
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Player uniqueness VERY IMPORTANT

Ok let me start off by saying that I am really excited with how IAN and co. are handling Madden now. Next let me say that I have not bought Madden since 05. I am not a certain brand name fan. All I like is good gameplay and will continue to stay on the football game that represents that the best. At the moment I feel APF 2k8 is the best on the field football we have to date. It might not have much depth. But the on the field stuff is done very well.

With that said, I want to discuss the main draw back I have seen with madden for years and years. Each team is the same team with different jerseys and different names and numebrs on those jerseys. No players feel "Unique", this leads to very boring replay value.

I think the vast majority of us want to see a difference between players. This will then lead to teams having a certain set of skills they are better at and weaker at.

A good example of this would be my Saints. Powerful passing attack, weak pass defense. When I go into a game, I wanna be able to know what areas are their strengths and weakness. THEN be able to see this take shape on the field.

For this to look and "feel" this way though we need each individual person to feel different than the next. Those NUMERIC ratings mean ZERO, if it does not translate to a difference ON THE FIELD.

I would love if either Donny, Ian or someone could talk a little bit about this and if any of this possible. If that is out of the cards, then I would like to hear the rest of everyones opinion on this matter
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Old 03-13-2009, 04:43 PM   #2
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Re: Player uniqueness VERY IMPORTANT

I made a post about this same thing a few days ago and I agree with you 100%. All the players are way too similar in Madden. They need to do something that makes each player animate differently and control differently. Not every player but at least a few or more stars on each team.
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Old 03-13-2009, 04:53 PM   #3
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Re: Player uniqueness VERY IMPORTANT

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgc201
I made a post about this same thing a few days ago and I agree with you 100%. All the players are way too similar in Madden. They need to do something that makes each player animate differently and control differently. Not every player but at least a few or more stars on each team.
Yea and another big area is BODY WEIGHT. There is no sense of players weight in controlling them. They all feel like I am steering a fast little car in Forza 2. Perfect control, with hardly ever see over pursuit take a player out of postion. They can easily stop on a dime and change direction with no penalty
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Old 03-13-2009, 04:53 PM   #4
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Re: Player uniqueness VERY IMPORTANT

Strategy does not much enter into the game. Alot of attention has been put into the appearance of the players, but not nearly as much into the football aspects of the game.

It's simplified football. So the playcalling you get with your Saints will not be pass happy, and their defense will not be vanilla to make up for the lack of talent in the secondary.

The individual strengths of a player are not well simulated by Madden. This is due in large part to the fact that the CPU will make any low-level player into a super human whenever it needs a big play. There is no forcing the CPU to roll a safety over Randy Moss, or moving a TE to the left side to block Dwight Freeney. All the players play the same so that 11 year olds can play and not get hammered.

You should have to gameplan against great players. If I know that you have a great pass rusher and that my LT is a garbage rookie then I should have to put in an extra blocker. But in Madden my garbage rookie will block Freeney all day long like he's Jonathan Ogden himself.

Ratings mean nothing.
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Old 03-13-2009, 04:58 PM   #5
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Re: Player uniqueness VERY IMPORTANT

Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgun styles
Strategy does not much enter into the game. Alot of attention has been put into the appearance of the players, but not nearly as much into the football aspects of the game.

It's simplified football. So the playcalling you get with your Saints will not be pass happy, and their defense will not be vanilla to make up for the lack of talent in the secondary.

The individual strengths of a player are not well simulated by Madden. This is due in large part to the fact that the CPU will make any low-level player into a super human whenever it needs a big play. There is no forcing the CPU to roll a safety over Randy Moss, or moving a TE to the left side to block Dwight Freeney. All the players play the same so that 11 year olds can play and not get hammered.

You should have to gameplan against great players. If I know that you have a great pass rusher and that my LT is a garbage rookie then I should have to put in an extra blocker. But in Madden my garbage rookie will block Freeney all day long like he's Jonathan Ogden himself.

Ratings mean nothing.
PERFECT post. Completely agree.

Yea having to take notice that Jared Allen is speed rushing on the outside and putting a fb over there to help contain him is pointless because my scrub tackle will brick wall him.

Reggie Bush trucking people, Brandon Jacobs breaking ankles like he is L.T.

This list is endless. BUT I would like to know if we will see this this year? Will we see a more "THOUGHT BASED" football game OR are we going to get the same over the top version of football madden has been releasing for years now?
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Old 03-13-2009, 05:09 PM   #6
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Re: Player uniqueness VERY IMPORTANT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phobia
PERFECT post. Completely agree.

Yea having to take notice that Jared Allen is speed rushing on the outside and putting a fb over there to help contain him is pointless because my scrub tackle will brick wall him.

Reggie Bush trucking people, Brandon Jacobs breaking ankles like he is L.T.

This list is endless. BUT I would like to know if we will see this this year? Will we see a more "THOUGHT BASED" football game OR are we going to get the same over the top version of football madden has been releasing for years now?
Some of this is a result of mo-cap, and some of it is poor programming.

I stated in another post that when in comes to OL/DL interactions and runner/tackler interactions that there are only 2 states of being:

1. You are being blocked/tackled

2. You are not being blocked/tackled.

In real life there are various stages of being blocked and tackled. You can be partially blocked or tackled. Mo-cap does not simulate this well, and has a hard time determining when a block or tackle should begin and end. Thus it arbitrarily decides to either block/tackle you or not to block/tackle you.

Same goes with passing. QBs are WAAAAYYY more accurate in Madden then they are in real life. The 7th graders cry when they go 7 of 20 in a half because they are passing on every down and not bothering to throw to the open guy or lead the ball in the right direction, or bother to play with an accurate QB in the first place.

So EA makes all the passes super accurate to placate the 7th graders. Meanwhile sim guys like us are pulling our hair out because when we have Tom Brady dead to rights he throws an impossible pass 45 yards across his body while being tackled. And the throw is perfect.

I could go on. And on. And on.
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Old 03-13-2009, 05:17 PM   #7
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Re: Player uniqueness VERY IMPORTANT

Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgun styles
Some of this is a result of mo-cap, and some of it is poor programming.

I stated in another post that when in comes to OL/DL interactions and runner/tackler interactions that there are only 2 states of being:

1. You are being blocked/tackled

2. You are not being blocked/tackled.

In real life there are various stages of being blocked and tackled. You can be partially blocked or tackled. Mo-cap does not simulate this well, and has a hard time determining when a block or tackle should begin and end. Thus it arbitrarily decides to either block/tackle you or not to block/tackle you.

Same goes with passing. QBs are WAAAAYYY more accurate in Madden then they are in real life. The 7th graders cry when they go 7 of 20 in a half because they are passing on every down and not bothering to throw to the open guy or lead the ball in the right direction, or bother to play with an accurate QB in the first place.

So EA makes all the passes super accurate to placate the 7th graders. Meanwhile sim guys like us are pulling our hair out because when we have Tom Brady dead to rights he throws an impossible pass 45 yards across his body while being tackled. And the throw is perfect.

I could go on. And on. And on.
Yea a big part of the missing puzzle with madden is like you said. Passes only have a couple out comes caught/dropped or Batted/INT. Where is the over throws, under throws???? Where is the QB getting hurried and having a hard time getting the pass off correctly??? Where is the QB getting hit while throwing and the ball coming out with the correct physics of a wounded duck up for grabs?
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Old 03-13-2009, 05:21 PM   #8
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Re: Player uniqueness VERY IMPORTANT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phobia
Yea a big part of the missing puzzle with madden is like you said. Passes only have a couple out comes caught/dropped or Batted/INT. Where is the over throws, under throws???? Where is the QB getting hurried and having a hard time getting the pass off correctly??? Where is the QB getting hit while throwing and the ball coming out with the correct physics of a wounded duck up for grabs?
Exactly. So many NFL quarterbacks kill drives by throwing the ball in the dirt on hitches, over the receiver's head on crosses and fly patterns, and out of bounds on out routes. In Madden these plays HARDLY EVER HAPPEN. Most plays are broken up by super-human corners and linebackers who swat down everything that gets near them.

Sometimes I wonder if Ian and his boys have ever even seen a football game, much less played in one.
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