Quote confirms sliders?!!!

[youALREADYknow]

Quote: Originally Posted by da ThRONe

I agree to sliders like those and ones that adjust overall game speed. What I dont like are sliders that make a player break extra tackles and run faster or sliders that make butter fingered WR's sure handed WR's to me that isnt "Sim".

That is why they are customizable by the USER and not default settings. You obviously have no real experience tuning sliders, so please leave that discussion to people who know better.

There has NEVER been a football game out-of-the-box where players performed tasks and achieved statistics at a rate/level within reason of realistic NFL performance. Sliders help to fix this problem for sim gamers.

I still don't get why you're griping about an option that a user has when it has absolutely no impact on your gaming experience. Online gaming has no sliders. Offline gaming is set by each user on their own console. Let it go.

[thelasthurtknee]

this not having sliders it ******** and would be the number one reason why i wouldnt buy this game and why i didnt buy madden last year. remember what it was like before sliders and if i remember right we didnt have them when we first jumped to next gen and all hell broke lose. sliders are a must. da throne i get what your trying to say but no way in hell would that work.

and anti honor, when ncaa came out with the second patch one of the producers said they got the sliders working but didnt tune them. they were redoing the sliders completely for this year. they said they didnt even really know what they did or if they still worked like they are supposed to. like qb acc. alot of guys think that the hum affects both teams still like it did when the game first came out. these should not only be fixed but redone or more added from what they said. i wouldnt worry. they know that they have to have these fixed.

[da ThRONe]

Quote: Originally Posted by youALREADYknow

There has NEVER been a football game out-of-the-box where players performed tasks and achieved statistics at a rate/level within reason of realistic NFL performance. Sliders help to fix this problem for sim gamers.

We agree there ,but just because it hasnt been done doesnt mean it cant be done. There are like 40+ ratings for the very purpose of making players proform like there real life selves. God forbid they actually start getting it right!

Quote: Originally Posted by youALREADYknow

I still don't get why you're griping about an option that a user has when it has absolutely no impact on your gaming experience. Online gaming has no sliders. Offline gaming is set by each user on their own console. Let it go.

I already said that if this game is aiming to be completely "sim" then sliders that effect players on field performance isnt "sim". Whats realistic about adjusting sliders and making poor player proform better? None of you has answered that question yet! As far as "letting it go" everybody is challenging my opinion Im just trying to justify my views.

My objection to sliders is base solely on the concept of a truly "sim" game.

[woowoo782]

I'm sick of patches to, make the game right the first time or delay the release. what's the rush? your the only football game that has NFL.

[youALREADYknow]

Quote: Originally Posted by da ThRONe

I already said that if this game is aiming to be completely "sim" then sliders that effect players on field performance isnt "sim". Whats realistic about adjusting sliders and making poor player proform better? None of you has answered that question yet! As far as "letting it go" everybody is challenging my opinion Im just trying to justify my views. My objection to sliders is base solely on the concept of a truly "sim" game.

Let's get this clear. The video game industry is nowhere near the point where they can truly make a true football simulation on a $300 console and finish it in a yearly cycle. They are just beginning to get near the point where we can call these games "sim-style" and still have work to do before we're at that point.

You continue to point out idiotic uses for sliders as justification for removing them entirely. Anyone creating sliders so that poor players perform well isn't trying to get a sim-style slider set. Anyone creating sliders so that fumbles happen every play isn't trying to get a sim-style slider set.

People who truly work on sim sliders spend countless (100+) hours gathering data before even deciding on a final slider set, so this isn't some random switch like you make it seem to make us feel better. Most sim slider uses are about statistics, not how the game feels. Madden devs can spend all day making the game feel and look like real football, but that all gets thrown out of the window the second an actual human picks up the controller and moves a player. The human element cannot be defined by 4 modes of play or a few user options. The paltry amount of sliders we have always been provided do not even come close to the amount of sliders we really need to tune the game.

[da ThRONe]

Quote: Originally Posted by thelasthurtknee

da throne i get what your trying to say but no way in hell would that work.

You're probably right. Im just saying we dont know thats all. The reason why we are so pro sliders is because they fail every year at giving us a true simulation. I have my doubts a video game can ever truly be "sim".

Im just going off that word "sim" maybe Im taking it too literal but sim to me is sim. If a player struggles in a certain aspect of football I want to see that reflected in this game. If leaving the sliders in the middle really works this year im cool but as long as theres sliders(ones that affect the players proformance) in sports game its never a "sim" game.

[da ThRONe]

Quote: Originally Posted by youALREADYknow

Let's get this clear. The video game industry is nowhere near the point where they can truly make a true football simulation on a $300 console and finish it in a yearly cycle. They are just beginning to get near the point where we can call these games "sim-style" and still have work to do before we're at that point. You continue to point out idiotic uses for sliders as justification for removing them entirely. Anyone creating sliders so that poor players perform well isn't trying to get a sim-style slider set. Anyone creating sliders so that fumbles happen every play isn't trying to get a sim-style slider set. People who truly work on sim sliders spend countless (100+) hours gathering data before even deciding on a final slider set, so this isn't some random switch like you make it seem to make us feel better. Most sim slider uses are about statistics, not how the game feels. Madden devs can spend all day making the game feel and look like real football, but that all gets thrown out of the window the second an actual human picks up the controller and moves a player. The human element cannot be defined by 4 modes of play or a few user options. The paltry amount of sliders we have always been provided do not even come close to the amount of sliders we really need to tune the game.

So to sum things up I say if a game is truly "sim" they wont need sliders and your saying games are light-years away from being totally sim then there is no real disagreement here.

My expectation are just to high for this current gen of systems. I can understand that ,but my point still remains a game is never sim until sliders are obsolete.

[thelasthurtknee]

i play in a OD with guys that can beat by the cpu alot. some guys not so much. some never lose to cpu. head to head a guy that lose to cpu might beat a hum that doesnt. guys are all over on level of ablity. the cpu would actually have to tone it down or play better dependending on the how the hum is playing. madden tried that and failed. if its trully sim you would have to have the mind of bill walsh to win a championship. is that what you want to play? you could take a good straight player and have him play the cpu 100 times. tune the game perfectly for him to win and lose evenly with even teams. remove the sliders, release the game and watch me beat the cpu 100-0. some guys will lose every game. i said this before and being a scout and having software i use for what i do that if a truly sim like game was made every team, coach at every level would want it. they could use it in study for qb's to read coverages (this is already done at college level as LSU among others use it for young qb's to read cover 1's, 2 and 3 man and so on) and other positions to show tendency's. this kind of thing would coast 1000's of dollors without having real teams or any kind of mode that would bring game enjoyment. a total sim would be a great tool for players and coaches and you wouldnt be able to afford it. you need to know also that changing the level of play changes the sliders. yea they stay at 50 on the screen but the base range goes up or down with the level change. this is that way with games that dont have sliders but levels. even a game like cod has sliders built in that control whats going on depending on difficulty. there is no way around them.