Teams running the 3-4 in Madden 10

[FadeEmAll]

Quote: Originally Posted by monkeybutlerz

I hope they do the Ravens justice this year and there's a lot of pre-snap movement and created confusion. Obviously not the only team who does it, but in recent years they've moved around a lot more than your average team (although I understand that that may change with Ryan's departure). One thing I'm hoping is changed is when you list a 3-4 DE like Ngata (who I think is now the NT), it's not great to see him lined up on the outside in the nickel packages when he usually plays the more standard DT style. I know we were given subs in the menu, but it's kind of a pain in the butt to have to change up my all my different packages everytime. I think it'd be cool to see players like Tuck who kicked inside on nickel packages during the Giants SB year (even though they're defensive ends) and get to use their quickness to their advantage against the interior of the line. I tried to sub in a lot of exotic formations last year with my 3rd down pass rushing nickel formations, but they never really seemed to provide much pressure (when in reality they're pretty deadly for the Ravens, who put people all over the place).

That is the exact reason why they should have formation substitutions in the game!!! I don't understand why they took it out of the game. It's probably going to be one of those situations where they put it back in the game and say "All New Groundbreaking Features!!!" I've been saying they need to put back everything in the game they took out, with only a few exceptions.

[monkeybutlerz]

Quote: Originally Posted by 94niners

Although this is all well and good, WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE IF THE PLAYERS DON'T PLAY THE POSITION RIGHT? A 3-4 defensive end IS NOT THE SAME as a 4-3 defensive end. It MATTERS WHAT PLAYER YOU HAVE in that position in real life. You can't just take Dwight Freeney and make him a 3-4 defensive end. If you tried that, you would FAIL because HE COULDN'T PLAY THE POSITION. Nor could you just plug in a 4-3 DT into a 3-4 and have success. They are NOT the same and until this is fixed, I don't really see how the difference between a 3-4 and a 4-3 playbook in Madden really matters.

I agree for the most part, but there are definitely some exceptions. Trevor Pryce converted from a 4-3 DE to a 3-4 DE, just like Ngata can play in either scheme with success (either as a 3-4 DE, NT or 4-3 DT). Clearly these people have to be very good athletes. I think Peppers could convert to a 3-4 DE, as well as Mario Williams. Dockett is another guy who comes to mind who is scheme diverse.

But you're right, in general, small pass rushing 4-3 DEs like Freeney would fail miserably in the 3-4, unless they had the ability to stand up and cover (which I don't think Freeney can do effectively) so that they could convert to the OLB position.

[monkeybutlerz]

Quote: Originally Posted by 94niners

I doubt it. The Ravens defense is just like the 49ers offense of the 80s and 90s. The players new the scheme so well and executed it so perfectly that new coordinators learned the team's offense rather than implemented their own. I suspect is exactly what will happen with the Ravens. Anyone from the outside will run what the Ravens run (with only minor tweaks rather than wholesale changes). Besides, aren't they hiring from within anyway?

They are hiring from within (Greg Mattison), but he's only been with us for one season. He has stated that he won't try and fix what isn't broken, but I'm sure he's going to want to somewhat put his own stamp on the scheme.

And I understand we've gone through many coordinators, but don't forget that back with Marvin Lewis, we were a very rigid 4-3 team, with very little pre-snap movement that was able to dominate due to ability and tenacity. We then moved to the 3-4 with Nolan, but it was nowhere near as exotic as it has been with Ryan.

I still believe that it will be a successful defense in the future (and I credit that to the great job by the front office of constantly finding a way to replace the good players we lose), but how closely it will mirror the defense we've seen the last few years is up in the air.

[Derrville]

Cowboys play a 3-0.

As in only Ware, Ratliff, and Bradie James come to play.

Everyone else might as well be non existent.

[monkeybutlerz]

Quote: Originally Posted by DOLFANMIKE

You can get alot of that desired movement stuff by sliding your DL or aligning them offset to the short or wide side of the field, and by sliding your LB's in, out, left or right. It creates hundreds of variations and looks for each individual play.

Agreed, but when watching the Ravens play, it quickly becomes apparent that they're doing far more than simple shifts. They move around a lot not necessarily just to get into optimal position, but they disguise their intentions creating massive confusion and they may not even get completely set until a couple seconds before the ball is snapped. You sometimes see their D-lineman lined up at LB and then getting set, LBs switching sides, safeties moving up to the line, LBs in position to cover WRs, etc. all at once.

To replicate this perfectly would be extremely difficult, which I understand, but I'd like to see a lot more player movement pre-snap (although I wouldn't expect anything nearly as exotic as what the Ravens have been doing).

[94niners]

Quote: Originally Posted by monkeybutlerz

Agreed, but when watching the Ravens play, it quickly becomes apparent that they're doing far more than simple shifts. They move around a lot not necessarily just to get into optimal position, but they disguise their intentions creating massive confusion and they may not even get completely set until a couple seconds before the ball is snapped. You sometimes see their D-lineman lined up at LB and then getting set, LBs switching sides, safeties moving up to the line, LBs in position to cover WRs, etc. all at once. To replicate this perfectly would be extremely difficult, which I understand, but I'd like to see a lot more player movement pre-snap (although I wouldn't expect anything nearly as exotic as what the Ravens have been doing).

I totally agree with this, but not just for the Ravens. On the offensive side of the ball, coordinators like Mike Martz use WAY more motion and shifting than we can do in Madden. Why is it that you can only put ONE guy in motion per play? In the NFL, I see plenty of plays where one guys is moved, then he sets, and then another guy goes in motion.

Why is this not "in the game?"


But as to the Ravens defense, this is totally right. They try to pull a Peyton Manning on you, and Madden just doesn't have this "in the game."

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by monkeybutlerz

They are hiring from within (Greg Mattison), but he's only been with us for one season. He has stated that he won't try and fix what isn't broken, but I'm sure he's going to want to somewhat put his own stamp on the scheme. And I understand we've gone through many coordinators, but don't forget that back with Marvin Lewis, we were a very rigid 4-3 team, with very little pre-snap movement that was able to dominate due to ability and tenacity. We then moved to the 3-4 with Nolan, but it was nowhere near as exotic as it has been with Ryan. I still believe that it will be a successful defense in the future (and I credit that to the great job by the front office of constantly finding a way to replace the good players we lose), but how closely it will mirror the defense we've seen the last few years is up in the air.

Actually this is not completely true about Marvin Lewis. We were a 3-4 team at one point under Marvin. I believe it was in 96 or 97. We were depleted on the Dline due to injuries and Lewis was forced to move to 3-4 for that season. He even used it sparingly during our SB run. Check out the Titans regular season and playoff games from that year. The 4 backers that were on the field when we ran it then was, Lewis, Brigance, Sharper, Boulware.

We will still be aggressive but no where near Rex's aggressiveness, in which he sometimes would send seven. But he didn't do this that much the past two seasons due to CB health. But in 2006, when we lead the league in sacks with 66, he'd load up seven alot. I don't think Mattison is going to be doing alot of that. Although I do think we will be running a great deal of pure man with the CB's we have. Rex's scheme was a mix of man and man thirds.

[monkeybutlerz]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

Actually this is not completely true about Marvin Lewis. We were a 3-4 team at one point under Marvin. I believe it was in 96 or 97. We were depleted on the Dline due to injuries and Lewis was forced to move to 3-4 for that season. He even used it sparingly during our SB run. Check out the Titans regular season and playoff games from that year. The 4 backers that were on the field when we ran it then was, Lewis, Brigance, Sharper, Boulware. We will still be aggressive but no where near Rex's aggressiveness, in which he sometimes would send seven. But he didn't do this that much the past two seasons due to CB health. But in 2006, when we lead the league in sacks with 66, he'd load up seven alot. I don't think Mattison is going to be doing alot of that. Although I do think we will be running a great deal of pure man with the CB's we have. Rex's scheme was a mix of man and man thirds.

You're right about Marvin, I was describing moreso our Super Bowl year, when we had all the big boys up front in place (in terms of our primary defense of course).

And your assessment on Rex is right, but in 2006 I think it was more than just about the fact that our CBs were healthy (although that definitely was a big factor). Adalius Thomas was a really versatile player and a far better pass rusher than Jarrett Johnson. And Trevor Pryce was dominant for us that year, freeing things up for the players around him, making our blitzes that much more deadly (not to mention Kelly Gregg was playing at a really high level).

From the reports I've heard concerning Mattison (who was apparently the DC who destroyed Troy Smith and Ohio State), we may not be as fancy and exotic with the pre-snap movement as we were with Rex, but we may blitz on a higher percentage of plays (which would be pretty insane). Either way, we'll have to see.