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Am I the only one that doesn't care about online franchise?

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Old 04-02-2009, 08:24 PM   #105
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Re: Am I the only one that doesn't care about online franchise?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatcher
Aside from the unpredictability/reliability/stability factors of running this over a server connecting to thousands of machines, feeding information back and forth... there is also the issue of having to write this program probably from scratch or something close to it to run comparable to the PS2 version.
I don't see how this would be any different than a regular play now game, instead of loading up default rosters they look at a file and load up rosters from there. And when teh game ends they save the stats to a file... sounds pretty basic to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatcher
Aha! This was exactly my point. I would've thought that anybody today clamoring for online franchise would've been all over a feature like Franchise Live Opponent. In Madden 07 for 360 (and probably PS3 but I don't know about all that version offered) You could take your franchise, connect online, and then bring in a live opponent to play you in your franchise. It also allowed you to use custom rosters, so this could be considered a sort of bare skeleton/test pilot of online franchise. Madden 07 sold about 2 Million copies on 360, and yet to be honest I've never actually seen much discussion about this feature outside of some passing mentions here and there.
Oh, I see... well, that's probably because Madden 06, 07 and 08 for the NG system were so unplayable for me that I spent a total of probably 2 hours with them combined in practice mode before I realized that the gameplay was so horrific that I had no intention of playing them regardless of what mode they offered. Madden 09 was the first NG madden where they actually provided some level of control over the players, so we decided to explore it a bit deeper. For 06, 07 and 08 I went back to the PS2 version.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatcher
When I think hardcore, I think of people like the OS crowd who come here to discuss and dissect every minute detail of the game. These people play the game looking for deep value in modes, functions and options, and authenticity of experience that stacks up to its real world counterpart. This group is small compared to the casual.

When I think casual, I think of people who don't come to places like these to discuss Madden. They don't care about the minute details of the game, nor do they care to discuss them. They aren't looking for deep value as much as they're looking for quick gratification, and finding the newest wrinkle (glitch) to beat their buddies, and by association to that, aren't concerned with authenticity of experience.
I actually think that the casual madden player is more interested in franchise than most... at least off-line franchise. I undersatnd that on-line franchise is a leap that not many casual players are willing to take, but how would we ever know since it's never been made available. The PS2 version had it but it was far from convenient.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatcher
I think you fall into the hardcore group because that's the type of player who would be most interested in this. A franchise going online and hammering it out with multiple people over a concrete 17+ week schedule just doesn't fit the mindset and behaviors of a casual player. There is too much obligation there for a casual to stay connected with this. Making trades, doing drafts, signing free agents, keeping a full season schedule and sticking to it... these aren't casual behaviors.
I guess it depends on how you look at the tiers... I look at them like so:

1. Beginner, doesn't k now much about football, just wants to play some football
2. Casual, knows about football, buys madden every year and plays it for a couple of months, franchise, off-line stuff mostly
3. On-line casual - notch above casual by definition... to play on-line and not lose misserably you have to know a bit more than the casual guy and probably put a bit more time into it.
4. On-line serious - Plays on-line or on-line franchise if possible, and continues to play until the new madden is released.
5. Tourney - This is where I think hard core comes into play. These are the guys that spend most of their time playing the game, disecting the game, finding whatever it takes to win, and then going on the road to compete in money tourneys.

I'm #4 for the most part, but Madden 09 turned me into #2.

For the PS2 game I was #4 for sure... I knew almost everythign about the game, played it well, was playing on-line franchises with a great group of guys, it was a blast... I'd like to experience that again on the NG system sooner than later.

I was never hard core (#5) and I dont' think I will ever be... that is far too much commitment.

The problem for me is that once I experienced the fun factor of an on-line franchise on the PS2, I can't go back to just playing "Play Now" games or anything off-line...

Last edited by CapnKill; 04-02-2009 at 08:27 PM.
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Old 04-02-2009, 08:51 PM   #106
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Re: Am I the only one that doesn't care about online franchise?

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Originally Posted by CapnKill
Sales go up every year no matter what. It's the only football game in town. People that love off-line franchise go and buy the game hoping its fixed. It's not like it says on the box "Off-line franchise is still fcked!!!".
And I think some folks would still buy it if it did, lol.

With so much early info leaking these days, I don't see how a person into that wouldn't be able to find out. I heard about franchise being a bust in Madden 08 way before the game hit stores and that was from me just passing by some sites not even looking for franchise information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnKill
What I'd like to see, and I doubt you can, is figures for how many Madden copies are returned or sold back within the first 2 months of purchase.

I can tell you that for people that love franchise, off-line or on-line the replay value of the game is 1 month tops.
That sounds about right from what I've seen over the years. There was a rumor (and some claim to have verified it) that Madden 08 was the most returned game in Gamestop history. The next season we saw a total blowout of promotions between EA and Gamestop for Madden 09. Coincidence? I dunno. But Gamestop would have the best numbers for this. It'll be tough trying wrestle those away though. Some people were calling district and getting figures somehow.

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Originally Posted by CapnKill
When will gameplay ever be 100%?
I don't know, but I'd say we were much closer a generation and longer ago, not based on mechanics because we clearly have more of those now, but based on the fact that those old games were fun to play and it all seemed simpler then.

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Originally Posted by CapnKill
What are you basing 100% on? Who's judging the gameplay? Is there a panel of players that determine when gameplay will be 100%?
We're judging it. We are the panel.


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Originally Posted by CapnKill
Maybe 100% to you is not 100% to me... there will ALWAYS be room for improvement.
Yes, that's the beauty of it. And there'd better be always room for improvement, or this board is gonna get reeeeeal empty.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnKill
To use this excuse as a reason for not implementing on-line franchise is silly.
Not in the context of which I stated that. As I said earlier, the other issues within in this game are things that everyone is able to see out front both casual and hardcore alike. That doesn't mean everyone cares, but still they can see it. What everyone can see needs to be exceptional. Right now, it's far from that.

A feature as involved as an online franchise means a lot of work, a lot of resources and development time being drawn from multiple groups to make it work properly. This is not a wise move to make at this point. If the game were further along then okay, but this product is still behind by like 2 seasons.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnKill
I disagree, I think the Ps2 series was very solid starting from Madden 05 and made great improvements every year. The breakdown came with Madden NG.
I'm not sure what the disagreement there is. I gave a range of time between when the game was excellent to the time where it's not (now). Not a specific. I'm not saying Madden last gen wasn't solid. I wasn't into it enough to say one way or the other. I played 2K ball almost exclusively back then and never regretted it at all. It was a great time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnKill
But once again, Madden will never be perfect, gameplay will never be what everyone wants it to be, so when do you decide that its time to actually implement On-line franchise... when we move to the PS4?!
The benchmark is there. It's not a time going forward, it's a matter of reaching the level of excellence that past football games reached, and that current titles like MLB The Show and FIFA have reached. We already know what that means and what types of things need to be in the game for it to reach that level. Now it's simply a matter of the Madden team getting it done.
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Old 04-02-2009, 09:05 PM   #107
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Re: Am I the only one that doesn't care about online franchise?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatcher
Aha! This was exactly my point. I would've thought that anybody today clamoring for online franchise would've been all over a feature like Franchise Live Opponent. In Madden 07 for 360 (and probably PS3 but I don't know about all that version offered) You could take your franchise, connect online, and then bring in a live opponent to play you in your franchise. It also allowed you to use custom rosters, so this could be considered a sort of bare skeleton/test pilot of online franchise. Madden 07 sold about 2 Million copies on 360, and yet to be honest I've never actually seen much discussion about this feature outside of some passing mentions here and there.
I'm not going to go into the long responses you guys are doing but, Franchise Live opponent was nothing!!! and I mean nothing!!!! like online Franchise can or will be. to even compare the two is ludicrous. All that crap was was porting a game online to play against a friend, the lack of people clamoring for that has no relation to the desire for online franchise.
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Old 04-02-2009, 09:13 PM   #108
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Re: Am I the only one that doesn't care about online franchise?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatcher
And I think some folks would still buy it if it did, lol.
Sadly enough, that's accurate

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatcher
Yes, that's the beauty of it. And there'd better be always room for improvement, or this board is gonna get reeeeeal empty.
So when is the right time to do on-line franchise? You will never make everyone happy. There will always be people that will say "Fix what makes me unhappy first, then do on-line franchise later"

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatcher
A feature as involved as an online franchise means a lot of work, a lot of resources and development time being drawn from multiple groups to make it work properly. This is not a wise move to make at this point. If the game were further along then okay, but this product is still behind by like 2 seasons.
By your calculations I won't see on-line franchise until the PS4 / 3...uhmm.. 720?... That is so unacceptable its difficult to put into words.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatcher
I'm not sure what the disagreement there is. I gave a range of time between when the game was excellent to the time where it's not (now). Not a specific. I'm not saying Madden last gen wasn't solid. I wasn't into it enough to say one way or the other. I played 2K ball almost exclusively back then and never regretted it at all. It was a great time.
I think you said Madden wasn't good after the PS1 ... I don't recall, not really important. I too was a 2k freak, but I preferred how the long ball was handled in PS2 Madden so I made the switch in 05.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatcher
The benchmark is there. It's not a time going forward, it's a matter of reaching the level of excellence that past football games reached, and that current titles like MLB The Show and FIFA have reached. We already know what that means and what types of things need to be in the game for it to reach that level. Now it's simply a matter of the Madden team getting it done.
Well Ian said his goal is to not have people compare Madden to NFL2k5... until On-line Franchise is a reality, it will always be compared with a game that had this very feature implemented to near perfection 5 years ago.

Gamers shouldn't have to suffer for the previous Madden's team incompetency. They need to step up their efforts and catch up quickly. I expect On-line Franchise this year, and could somewhat forgive if it slips to 2011 (but probably won't buy 2010), but anything beyond that would be a complete joke.

Last edited by CapnKill; 04-02-2009 at 09:16 PM.
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Old 04-02-2009, 09:24 PM   #109
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Re: Am I the only one that doesn't care about online franchise?

I would never play in an Online Franchise with strangers... but the whole mode was SO awesome from NCAA last year, that it completely changed that game for me. It went from being a decent NCAA football game to being my most played NCAA football game. 90% of my Online Dynasty games were against the AI, maybe more, but the fact that you were competing with real people in the dynasty made it so much more fun... Whenever you were recruiting the same player as another guy in the game, it totally upped the ante. A few times I threw the farm at like some terribl 2 star FB ONLY because I didn't want my buddy to get one of my players

plus, if you had a good season, it wasn't just "you" who acknowledged it, but everybody. It was an awesome mode.

Online Franchise is make or break for me. I was really up on MAdden 09 then played the demo and just didn't car about the game, first madden I hadn't bought in maybe ... 6 or 7 years, and honestly, I didn't miss it at all. Online Dynasty was so great that I immediately thought online Franchise owuld be in Madden and if it is... day 1 purchase. If not, then I can probably do without Madden again this year.
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Old 04-02-2009, 09:27 PM   #110
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Re: Am I the only one that doesn't care about online franchise?

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Originally Posted by Details
Sports games are about competition.

An Online Franchise mode would give a group of dedicated, sim players the chance to compete for the Lombardi Trophy. I don't see the thrill in being the only human in the league.
This was the best part of the O-Dynasty in NCAA for me. I'd play it with 7 other guys from MaddenPlanet, the gaming forum I've been going to for years, and it was a blast. In the past, we'd try to organize leagues, etc, but they'd fall apart iwthin like 10 games at the most, but I think like 5 or 6 of the guys are still into like year 11 of the Online Dynasty, which is awesome. THey all get into an XBL party and play their games, even though they're playing against the PC, they're still chapping it up and talking about what goes on. I'd LOVE that in Madden.
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Old 04-02-2009, 09:49 PM   #111
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Re: Am I the only one that doesn't care about online franchise?

Online franchises definitely sound intriguing to me, but the chances of me finding more than 2 friends interested in playing are slim. I agree with many of you, the normal franchise mode is alot more important to me. With as shallow as it has been, I lose interest a month or two into the game. A successful Online franchise mode is a pipe dream if its built on a weak foundation.

One man's opinion.
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Old 04-02-2009, 10:56 PM   #112
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Re: Am I the only one that doesn't care about online franchise?

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Originally Posted by jzal8
Online franchises definitely sound intriguing to me, but the chances of me finding more than 2 friends interested in playing are slim. I agree with many of you, the normal franchise mode is alot more important to me. With as shallow as it has been, I lose interest a month or two into the game. A successful Online franchise mode is a pipe dream if its built on a weak foundation.

One man's opinion.
I don't think any of us ON-line Franchise die hards are arguing the fact that the off-line franchise needs to be good before it is ported on-line. I just personally feel that both can be done and should be done.
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