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Ian, without the vision cone, how will procedural awareness effect the QB ??

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Old 04-02-2009, 01:40 AM   #41
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Re: Ian, without the vision cone, how will procedural awareness effect the QB ??

Anyone that thought the vision cone was stupid or was "arcade" was most likely a casual football fan that doesn't have great hand eye coordination (as in they were not good at videogames)

The vision cone is up to this point the most realistic, sim addition to the Madden series ever. It simulated looking at receivers and off defenders perfectly and it forced players to go through progressions. It was a great feature. Unfortunately most people (ie the casuals) don't know a thing about looking off defenders or going through progressions. It took a good amount of skill to master the vision cone... especially with mediocre or poor QB's and this of course turned off numerous individuals that would have kept buying the game anyway. It was just a poor decision overall to downplay the feature and then eventually remove it instead of just tweaking it.

If the Madden team back then just stuck to its guns and didn't cater to the umpteen whiners that generally aren't good at games anyway and don't know much about football, then the feature would still be in. Sometimes its better to not listen to the complainers. The feature was removed because many people had difficulties with it. Not because of design limitations or it not working the way it intended, but because the majority of the Madden fan base back then and now are casual football fans and casual videogame players. It would be like The Show '09 people putting out a patch to make the hitting easier.

Some form of QB vision (not necessarily a cone) or some animation additions are needed to sim a QB looking off a defender and going through his progressions to really make the passing game sim enough.

Thats my opinion on the subject.
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Old 04-02-2009, 10:42 AM   #42
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Re: Ian, without the vision cone, how will procedural awareness effect the QB ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith121212
Anyone that thought the vision cone was stupid or was "arcade" was most likely a casual football fan that doesn't have great hand eye coordination (as in they were not good at videogames)
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exactly, I agree 100%. People who didn't like the vision cone, may not have been unsim; however, they were unskilled.
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Old 04-02-2009, 11:16 AM   #43
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Re: Ian, without the vision cone, how will procedural awareness effect the QB ??

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Originally Posted by Tito78
exactly, I agree 100%. People who didn't like the vision cone, may not have been unsim; however, they were unskilled.

i disagree. i didnt like it becuz of the fact that now i have a big yellow force field in nthe game. u wanna talk about realistic, how is that realistic? i believe that procedural awareness will have similar effects qb vision just without "the cone"
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Old 04-02-2009, 11:23 AM   #44
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Re: Ian, without the vision cone, how will procedural awareness effect the QB ??

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Originally Posted by niggarachi
i disagree. i didnt like it becuz of the fact that now i have a big yellow force field in nthe game. u wanna talk about realistic, how is that realistic? i believe that procedural awareness will have similar effects qb vision just without "the cone"
How realistic was to have passing icons under receivers? Visually the cone to me wasn't bad at all. I honestly believe that most of the people saying that, just don't want to admit that the real reason they didn't like the cone, was because it was too hard for them.

With procedural awareness, a cone is needed to tell the user where the QB is actually looking. Their needs to be a double tap system where if the cone isn't on the WR you want to throw to you press the button once to put the cone on the WR and a second time to throw him the ball.

If you hate the cone so much, a feature where the WR is highlighted in some way will serve the same purpose.
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Old 04-02-2009, 11:25 AM   #45
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Re: Ian, without the vision cone, how will procedural awareness effect the QB ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by niggarachi
i disagree. i didnt like it becuz of the fact that now i have a big yellow force field in nthe game. u wanna talk about realistic, how is that realistic? i believe that procedural awareness will have similar effects qb vision just without "the cone"
and what about when you want your QB to look at a receiver (not necessarily with a cone) to look the safety off and maybe even pump fake after you've looked at him to free someone else up?

I have no problems with people not liking the cone because of the way it looks, but you need to offer up a suggestion at least to make the game more sim.

The problem isn't the cone but the fact that one button press makes the QB look and throw simultaneously which doesn't give you an option to look defenders off.
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Old 04-02-2009, 11:53 AM   #46
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Re: Ian, without the vision cone, how will procedural awareness effect the QB ??

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Originally Posted by Tito78
How realistic was to have passing icons under receivers? Visually the cone to me wasn't bad at all. I honestly believe that most of the people saying that, just don't want to admit that the real reason they didn't like the cone, was because it was too hard for them.

With procedural awareness, a cone is needed to tell the user where the QB is actually looking. Their needs to be a double tap system where if the cone isn't on the WR you want to throw to you press the button once to put the cone on the WR and a second time to throw him the ball.

If you hate the cone so much, a feature where the WR is highlighted in some way will serve the same purpose.


lmao, ha i didnt like the cone only becuz of looks alone. it wasnt hard(no homo) i just didnt like it on the screen. and there is a HUGE difference between having a giant cone on the field(again no homo) and having some kind of highlighted icon under a single reciever. serves the same purpose yes(which i never protested) but gives a different visual effect which was my problem
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Old 04-02-2009, 01:30 PM   #47
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Re: Ian, without the vision cone, how will procedural awareness effect the QB ??

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Originally Posted by Tito78
The passing cone is letting the user know where he's looking. Procedural awareness basically requires that a player locate or see the ball before reacting or making a play on it.

Let's say you want to throw to a WR on the right, but your QB is looking toward the left. If procedural awareness affects QBs(as it should), than the QB will have to look to the right before throwing the ball. This will create a delay when throwing the ball because the user is going to press corresponding passing icon of the WR as soon as he see that WR is open; however, the QB isn't looking in that direction and will have to turn his head and spot the WR before he can throw the ball.

Here are a few problems with a scenario; you may be trying to fit that ball into a tight window; by the time you QB turns his head and throws the ball, that small window has closed, and the pass is broken up or picked off.

Timings routes could also be adversely effected; If you're throwing a time route and you press the button to throw the ball, if the QB isn't looking at that receiver at that particular time, the timing of that route will be thrown off.

In both of these situations, there's no turning back. Once you've pressed the button, the QB is going to throw the ball.

An easy solution to this would be a double tap system. You wouldn't have to use the right analog stick or hold down any extra buttons to move the cone. If the QB happens to be looking at the receiver you're throwing at; you would press the corresponding icon once, if he's not looking a that receiver, you would have to press the button twice. Once to switch the cone to the receiver and a second time to throw the ball.

This way if the receiver is covered by the time the QB looks at him, you're not committed to throwing the ball. You can look for another option.

Now many people seem to hate the way the cone looks. Well instead, Ian and company could simply make the passing icons bigger or highlight the receiver in some way to let the user know that the QB is looking at him. IMO visually, with cone, it would be easier to anticipate when the receiver is going to be in the QB's line of sight by watching the cone rotate to that receiver. But that's just me.
I appreciate the long response, but the "visual" button sequence still seems mechanically redundant and bulky to me. It's like playing a first person shooter like Halo and telling everyone that they have to press X-Y-Z before pulling the trigger. WHY?? The same logic should work with Madden. When you're front and center as a QB, you are fully assuming the identity of the QB. Everything you see, the QB essentially sees in the game. There is no need to translate the vision.

Now, notice how I said essentially. Because while a QB may still be able to locate a receiver on the side of the field, it's still mechanically difficult to introduce a horizontal trajectory to complete a pass across your body. Easy fix. Just penalize those illogical passes by significantly decreasing completion rates (and likewise increase INT-rates) for opposite-field throws. ESPN 2k5 did this perfectly.

While I completely understand the benefits of a vision cone (and the way you presented it), I just think it ultimately reduces the responsiveness of the game and risks ruining the flow of the action. And that's coming from a person who actually liked the concept of the vision cone in Madden 06. Perhaps when video game developers create glasses that automatically identify where your eyes are looking at, that's when it can make a reappearance. That way we don't have to emulate the quickness of our eyes with the "neurological delay" of our fingers.
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Old 04-02-2009, 01:51 PM   #48
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Re: Ian, without the vision cone, how will procedural awareness effect the QB ??

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Originally Posted by [email protected]_WiZaRD
I appreciate the long response, but the "visual" button sequence still seems mechanically redundant and bulky to me. It's like playing a first person shooter like Halo and telling everyone that they have to press X-Y-Z before pulling the trigger. WHY?? The same logic should work with Madden. When you're front and center as a QB, you are fully assuming the identity of the QB. Everything you see, the QB essentially sees in the game. There is no need to translate the vision.
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You're not fully assuming the identity of the QB, you are merely controlling him. Awareness is one of the most important attributes for a QB, without the vision cone, or something like it, the QBs awareness is ignored because the user is making the decisions. It's unrealistic to be able to make decisions and find WRs just as easily
Rex Grossman as it is with Peyton Manning.

Decision making abilities of the QB shouldn't be ignored. Think of how much better and deeper franchise mode will become if you've had to sit and slowly bring along your stud rookie QB who had great throwing power and accuracy because it's a lot harder to find open WRs with him. As it is now, you could start that QB from day one; that's not sim.
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