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IBM's "Deep Blue" computer beat the chess champ in '97,but we can't have adaptive AI?

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Old 04-05-2009, 01:04 PM   #9
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Re: IBM's "Deep Blue" computer beat the chess champ in '97,but we can't have adaptive

They did it in NHL, why not in Madden?
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Old 04-05-2009, 01:05 PM   #10
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Re: IBM's "Deep Blue" computer beat the chess champ in '97,but we can't have adaptive

I am trying to wrap my head around an algorithm that only looks 4 or 5 plays ahead in football. How do you calculate how powerful a play will be in a situation. Oh boy I feel for anyone who tries to take on that challenge. There are so many variables to just calculate which play is the best play and then try and calculate what the defense is going to do that it just made my head spin.
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Old 04-05-2009, 01:05 PM   #11
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Re: IBM's "Deep Blue" computer beat the chess champ in '97,but we can't have adaptive

Personally, I hate the term "Adaptive AI", because it doesn't really mean anything. If you have an AI that changes behavior over the course of a game based on user input, it's adaptive. Adaptive doesn't make it good. People have been begging for adaptive AI with no elaboration for years. If I were Ian, I'd say "yeah, it's in there" simply because the fact that the AI reacts to your formation call is "adaptive".

I have my own ideas on how AI should work, but everytime I hint at it, I get 500 posts screaming about adaptive AI, even though my ideas are more realistic than a computer that reacts to your playcalls. Not all coaches are "adaptive". Some coaches make you adapt to them.
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Old 04-05-2009, 01:06 PM   #12
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Re: IBM's "Deep Blue" computer beat the chess champ in '97,but we can't have adaptive

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Originally Posted by adembroski
Seriously? Deep Blue?

I hate to break it too you mean... someone brought this up over on the Total War boards as well... but a "Deep Blue" for Madden would be near impossible, and the PS3 couldn't run it.

Chess has a limited number of possibilities. Each piece can only move a certain way. There are only so many positions on the board. It's turn-based. Facing is irrelevant. Everything's organized into neat little squares. None of this applies to Madden. Doing this for a football video game (or, as the case may be, a real time tactical war sim) is damn close to impossible.

And thus, it's not a fair comparison.
I'm not asking for the CPU to be Bill Bellicheck or The Tuna, but at the very least roll a safety over Randy Moss. Is that too much processing power for the 360 and PS3 to handle?

I just want basic football principals to be followed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgiles36
I didn't think so. So Shotty, why are you jumping off on the deep end? I share your sentiments for Adaptive AI (I put it in all my wishlists) but why are you jumping out the window with no confirmation?
Point taken. But no news has very often proven to be bad news, you would admit that at least...
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Old 04-05-2009, 01:07 PM   #13
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Wink Re: IBM's "Deep Blue" computer beat the chess champ in '97,but we can't have adaptive

Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgun styles
Here's the article for proof.

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/02/11/us...-champion.html

That computer, IBM's "Deep Blue" beat the world chess champion Gary Kasparov back in 1997. That was 12 years ago.




Deep Blue was a supercomputer of it's time, but developed a measly 11.38 GFLOPS. Compared to the PS3 and XBox 360 this is not impressive.

If that computer could beat the world champ of chess 12 years ago with far less computing power, then-

1) Why does the CPU in Madden still call all it's plays at random?


These consoles are math machines, but they can't do statistical play-calling? The can't defend your plays based on your tendencies?

2) Why can it not adapt and plan ahead in it's strategy.


The CPU should roll a safety over Randy Moss once he's over 100 yards. And keep him there for the duration. No more man coverage for Randy. The CPU should be stacking the box against Adrian Peterson, not backing out into cloud coverage on 1st down.

3) Why can't the CPU even use plays for their intended purpose.


Run screens and draws to beat blitzes, square ins and hitches to beat over coverage.

4) Why don't the playbooks contain complete plays?

There are no blocking assignments in this game. None. You cannot tell any single player to block any other single player. That's just wrong. Running plays in particular are incomplete. Because there is no goal to the play the CPU's running backs never know what hole to hit. Thus they always run into the backs of linemen, get stuck and tackled. It also makes it difficult for the human player to exploit weaknesses in a defense, whether it be a poor alignment or a weak defender.

ADAPTIVE AI IS A GAME CHANGER.

It will make Madden the game it was meant to be, a strategic challenge. It will tax the mind as well as the reflexes and make the game finally complete. Adaptive AI is a must have item for any game to call itself "Next Gen".
They possibly could do this.. But they concentrate more on cosmetics..Graphics and sound...Basically to please the general public...Maybe one day..It is progressing, but slowly











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Old 04-05-2009, 01:09 PM   #14
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Re: IBM's "Deep Blue" computer beat the chess champ in '97,but we can't have adaptive

Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgun styles



Point taken. But no news has very often proven to be bad news, you would admit that at least...
I responded to this in the other thread... emphatically no. If you'd been paying attention you'd know this.
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Old 04-05-2009, 01:10 PM   #15
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Re: IBM's "Deep Blue" computer beat the chess champ in '97,but we can't have adaptive

Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgun styles


Point taken. But no news has very often proven to be bad news, you would admit that at least...
Well, I thought the saying was no news is good news. When did it change?
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Old 04-05-2009, 01:13 PM   #16
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Re: IBM's "Deep Blue" computer beat the chess champ in '97,but we can't have adaptive

This thread made me chuckle.

Side note - I wonder what would happen if Microsoft or Sony made a console that big. Hypothetical - if it meant that you could have the most realistic football AI in history, would you buy a console the size of a fridge next to your TV?

deepblue.JPG

ha ha...
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