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IBM's "Deep Blue" computer beat the chess champ in '97,but we can't have adaptive AI?

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Old 04-05-2009, 08:58 PM   #65
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Re: IBM's "Deep Blue" computer beat the chess champ in '97,but we can't have adaptive

well the thing with having really good A.I is that a time it might feel cheap because the A.I. is so advanced it'll almost feel as if it's predicting your moves all the time. But i guess thats what some people are looking for.

But having an adaptive A.I. is just as good if not better than having A.I. with super inteligence.
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Old 04-05-2009, 10:43 PM   #66
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Re: IBM's "Deep Blue" computer beat the chess champ in '97,but we can't have adaptive

Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgun styles

Anything is better than random plays punctuated by cheating. ANYTHING.
About the "Cheating", Shotgun.

What drives me nuts at times is the "Comeback" AI. Theres been times vs the cpu in franchise mode, that I've had a decent time playing the cpu. A pretty hard fought back and forth game. Only to have it ruined in the final minute by the Superman Comeback AI.

Playing on All-Madden level...I recently snapped a nine game losing streak. One of those nine games was a blowout loss. Of the other eight, seven were lost in the final 1:00 to 1:30, with the cpu's last possession. What really bothered me was, that when I was leading by 4-6 points...the now unstoppable cpu when down the field and scored a TD. And ironically, if I lead by 1-2...yep...field goal. The cpu got just what it needed each time. The cheating, in my opinion was beyond obvious. I felt like I had just wasted an hour and a half of my day.

I'm really hoping that with M10, we're challenged on All-Madden by having to make good plays, and call a good defensive game. If not...you lose. Instead of the cpu turning into Superman, and the User team into Olive oil. If I couldn't stand to lose...I wouldn't be playing on All-Madden...but not like this.
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Old 04-05-2009, 11:19 PM   #67
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Re: IBM's "Deep Blue" computer beat the chess champ in '97,but we can't have adaptive

I just want to see the algorithm

It has got to be a doozy, can I just get a high level overview... or the actual equation
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Old 04-05-2009, 11:26 PM   #68
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Re: IBM's "Deep Blue" computer beat the chess champ in '97,but we can't have adaptive

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikes1
About the "Cheating", Shotgun.

What drives me nuts at times is the "Comeback" AI. Theres been times vs the cpu in franchise mode, that I've had a decent time playing the cpu. A pretty hard fought back and forth game. Only to have it ruined in the final minute by the Superman Comeback AI.

Playing on All-Madden level...I recently snapped a nine game losing streak. One of those nine games was a blowout loss. Of the other eight, seven were lost in the final 1:00 to 1:30, with the cpu's last possession. What really bothered me was, that when I was leading by 4-6 points...the now unstoppable cpu when down the field and scored a TD. And ironically, if I lead by 1-2...yep...field goal. The cpu got just what it needed each time. The cheating, in my opinion was beyond obvious. I felt like I had just wasted an hour and a half of my day.

I'm really hoping that with M10, we're challenged on All-Madden by having to make good plays, and call a good defensive game. If not...you lose. Instead of the cpu turning into Superman, and the User team into Olive oil. If I couldn't stand to lose...I wouldn't be playing on All-Madden...but not like this.
I think "comeback AI" has alot to do with the plays the cpu calls at the end of a game.

When they are down late in the game they pass most of the time. When playing normally during the middle of the game they might pass on first down, run on second then pass again on third if they didn't make the 1st yet.

The cpu has pretty much always been better at passing then running, so the chance that they put a good drive together would rise dramatically when they are exclusively passing.
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Old 04-06-2009, 12:40 AM   #69
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Re: IBM's "Deep Blue" computer beat the chess champ in '97,but we can't have adaptive

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jump



The cpu has pretty much always been better at passing then running, so the chance that they put a good drive together would rise dramatically when they are exclusively passing.
No question thats true Jump.

But it's just this feeling of helplessness I get, when the cpu puts together that last minute drive. And the fact...at least in my case, the cpu getting just what it needed to win? That really makes me wonder. "Comeback" AI is debatable...but to me, it sure seems to be there.
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Old 04-06-2009, 12:56 AM   #70
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Re: IBM's "Deep Blue" computer beat the chess champ in '97,but we can't have adaptive

didnt 2k5 have adaptive AI?
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:08 AM   #71
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Re: IBM's "Deep Blue" computer beat the chess champ in '97,but we can't have adaptive

shouldn't this be on the wishlist one as well a long with the return game post and about 90% of the posts in general?

Sorry, got kinda of pissed that was closed it was a good point....

As to this "wish" adaptive AI has been asked for a long time and it is needed in game. Exactly how and how complicated is up for debate. Do the individual players adapt, the coaches adapt, or is it done only with counters to certain over used plays/routes/coverages/etc.?
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Old 04-06-2009, 01:56 AM   #72
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Re: IBM's "Deep Blue" computer beat the chess champ in '97,but we can't have adaptive

We all know the computer cheats on All-Madden mode. It is no secret. The computer is doing it's best to compensate for the obvious mismatch of a living thinking human brain. there are a lot of things a computer can do faster than we can, but being abelto adjust on the fly and make those minor instant changes and adaptations is hard for a computer to adjust to.

I know something that frustrate me to no end in earlyer versions of Madden was how the computer "knew" your play. For example:

You come out in 2xTE singleback run offtackle to the right. The computer comes out and stacks the right side of the line. Coincedence? No. You playmaker the run to the left, they do he same. Okay, resonable adjustment. This time you fake a playmaker to the right and the d doesn't budge. OYu restet the play adn they again stack the right. You call a pass audible dropping everyone deep adn now the D changes formations, time is runnign out and you reset the play again to get the snap off and look who is comming back to crowed the right side?

Anther great example is when I call a 4 wide single back spread run and they come out in a 4-3 D, when I audibel into a play action they shift into a dime and when I call a new run [with audible right thumbstick down] hey go back to the 4-3. odd how the computer knows whatthe right look is to stop your called play is regardless of he formation or "trick" audibles you call that fool human players.

I'm not even going to get into the come back AI. oh, you need 3 yards to convert the 3rd down? Okay, break 2 tackles in the backfield and one at the LOS and fall forward for the first with your 81ovr running back who has 34 yards on 12 carries today. he just got lucky and super good suddenly. Oh snap! Is that a competion into cover 3 for a 17 yard gain on 3rd and 15? You sure are good computer.

All-Pro just isn't tough enough. One of the big reasons is the poor running game and poor passing decisions the computer makes. The computer will make a lot better throws on all madden, but it gets crazy. What Iused to do was mess with the sliders. Lower Com pass blockign to like 3, improve the computer run blocking and runing back ability, lower the catch ratting and improve my teams kockdowns while lowering my teams INT ratting by 1 or 2. This allowed the computer to run well with out going crazy and kept the over-the-top passing game in check by putting pressure on the computer forcing earlyer decisions and imporved kockdown and drops kept them from going 21-23 with Aaron Brooks.
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