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Old 04-07-2009, 08:40 PM   #33
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Re: What Can't Be Done?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings_EA
* Historic teams = there's no way to get all or even some of the correct players within the budget we have (I guess we could cut half of our development cost but I don't think anyone would dig that). Putting in the teams but scrambling the rosters doesn't really make it worth the effort on our side IMO (it takes a pretty large amount of time to make a team from scratch - uniforms, rosters, salaries, depth chart, stadium, coaches, tendencies, etc). Even if we ignore all that and choose to add the teams with dummy rosters and allow our fans to edit and/or share them, this is high risk. There will undoubtedly be youtube videos all over the place of people playing games with historic players that we don't have the rights to, which opens the door for all kinds of problems for us.
On this point, could you not ship the game with a disclaimer saying something to the effect of "EA cannot be held responsible for how customization is used by the end user". If you can't do that, then you are basically saying that it's not possible to make any game customizable because someone might infringe on someone elses trademark. There are loads of videos of people in Forza 2 with like Mario cars and other trademarked images, yet they haven't been sued yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by salbowski
This is exactly what pro evolution soccer does though... FIFA pays a lot of money to have the rights to kits and sponsors etc... but pes gives the user so many options to edit that you can pretty much have every kit, sponsor, player, hell you can even add specific chants to each team so adebayor is sung when arsenal play at home.

Why have you/EA/FIFA not sued konami/PES yet??
The soccer license is a little more vague than the NFL one, as far as I know. There are a lot of different issues there. In general I agree though.

Last edited by Cryolemon; 04-07-2009 at 08:42 PM.
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Old 04-07-2009, 08:42 PM   #34
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Re: What Can't Be Done?

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Originally Posted by Cryolemon
On this point, could you not ship the game with a disclaimer saying something to the effect of "EA cannot be held responsible for how customization is used by the end user". If you can't do that, then you are basically saying that it's not possible to make any game customizable because someone might infringe on someone elses trademark. There are loads of videos of people in Forza 2 with like Mario cars and other trademarked images, yet they haven't been sued yet.
Maybe something like the Modifications done by people to Madden 08 on PC?
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Old 04-07-2009, 08:45 PM   #35
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Re: What Can't Be Done?

Ok, so let me make sure I understand the scenario:

1. I start a franchise
2. I pick the Jets
3. I want to make the Jets uniforms in my little franchise world all black.

If I'm understanding correctly, doing something like that would anger the NFL because I then might turn around and post this up on Youtube, and seeing K. Rhodes in all black in Giants Stadium would be a problem?

So if that's the case, why can't we do this:

If I want to change the uni then I should be forced to first change my primary team colors.

Changing these colors would also change the color of the Logos and everything....

Would that be sufficient to keep the lawyers away?

I mean its a lot of fun to just customize your franchise, I find it very odd that the NFL would get upset because you allow users to edit uniforms...they can't possibly be that closed minded can they?!

Also have you guys considered a logo editor?

And does this have anything to do with why the PC version of the game is getting phased out? (I think I read that somewhere here, I could be wrong).

Seems to me that on the PC you can probably hack the game, and edit the hell out of it and then put it all on Youtube.
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Old 04-07-2009, 08:52 PM   #36
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Re: What Can't Be Done?

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Originally Posted by marktg30
Maybe something like the Modifications done by people to Madden 08 on PC?
That kind of thing makes sense.

Now, for a different point that relates to historical teams. The issue is broadly similar to the issue with names in NCAA, is it not? You have the team names already (in the Madden case "01 Patriots", etc.) but you can't use the names or likenesses (& in the Madden case, jersey numbers). How is this different to the NCAA situation?

Is there anything to stop you making a completely generic team with vaguely accurate ratings (i.e no names, just position and depth chart number) and then lets us edit it from there.
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Old 04-07-2009, 08:54 PM   #37
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Re: What Can't Be Done?

"What can't be done?"


Nikes and tattoos.
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Old 04-07-2009, 08:54 PM   #38
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Re: What Can't Be Done?

PES is a good example. It is almost entirely transparent customization wise, and I'm sure if there was a legal avenue for EA, EPL and FIFA etc to act, they would have by now. On the PC, you can literally download entire leagues like the EPL, complete with sponsor logo'd uniforms, player faces, branded shoes - the works. Also, if anything, PES is treading a far, far more dangerous line due to the sheer number of trademark holders their customization allows users to annoy - every soccer league in the world probably has a beef with PES.

Not to say the legal issues are just an excuse to not allow similiar stuff in Madden necessarily, but EA is probably being waaaay too safe over it and claiming legal issues by default is a good way to just leave it at that. They really don't have much incentive to push the boundaries given their best-buddies stance with the NFL. PES/Konami on the other hand are in a more desperate situation - if they played it safe and prevented most customization options, they'd probably be out of business by now, so it's (or was) do or die for them, basically.
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Old 04-07-2009, 09:01 PM   #39
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Re: What Can't Be Done?

Just look at the work Apollo does. He has terry Bradshaw of the Steelers done up in photoshop from madden 09, but as ian has said, there isn't anything that say "1978 Seelers" or says Bradshaw's name on the back of the jersey or anythign. it's just some #12 guy in what appears to be a modified steelers uniform.
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Old 04-07-2009, 09:05 PM   #40
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Re: What Can't Be Done?

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Originally Posted by Nza
PES is a good example. It is almost entirely transparent customization wise, and I'm sure if there was a legal avenue for EA, EPL and FIFA etc to act, they would have by now. On the PC, you can literally download entire leagues like the EPL, complete with sponsor logo'd uniforms, player faces, branded shoes - the works. Also, if anything, PES is treading a far, far more dangerous line due to the sheer number of trademark holders their customization allows users to annoy - every soccer league in the world probably has a beef with PES.

Not to say the legal issues are just an excuse to not allow similiar stuff in Madden necessarily, but EA is probably being waaaay too safe over it and claiming legal issues by default is a good way to just leave it at that. They really don't have much incentive to push the boundaries given their best-buddies stance with the NFL. PES/Konami on the other hand are in a more desperate situation - if they played it safe and prevented most customization options, they'd probably be out of business by now, so it's (or was) do or die for them, basically.
I just don't see how legally anyone can go after PES for that. So PES has a player and uniform editor... holy crap run for the fences!!

I mean, there's been so many games out there with that feature. On the PC side people hack the crap out of the game, how can PES be possibly held responsible for that?

But man, PES is 1000000000x better after applying one of these insanely detailed user patches its not even funny.
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