New Animation Technology!!

[mmorg]

I just find it odd that in the NCAA sizzle trailer and the Madden IGN videos both the QB sacks looked exactly the same.

[MikeMcMahon]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

Understood. Unfortunately I lack the level of access control or class to properly inspect the composition of the new technology, thus I have inherited an early bound facade that is little more than a prototype delegated by the gatekeeper and still requiring finalization. Have fun!

*Head Explodes*

[Valdarez]

Quote: Originally Posted by MikeMcMahon

*Head Explodes*

Yes, but was it a procedural explosion?

[NYyankz225]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

Wow. It's procedural. Well then, that explains it all. Since I'm such a silly boy, why don't you explain to me the difference between software that is procedural based and that which is not. I would honestly love to hear your answer.

Procedural systems has been gaining popularity in gaming development over the years so I have a general understanding of them. As I said, procedural in a general sense means that the animation, art assets, properties, etc., is determined by an algorithm created by the developers as opposed to a prewritten animation.

Ever played Oblivion? The forests in those games are procedurally generated. Obviously the assets for them were created by developers (creating textures for different tree types, grass, flowers, etc), but their placement and design was "decided" by an algorithm which creates unique environments so that each individual tree does not have to be placed by an artist by "hand". For example, the algorithm will randomly generate the elevation of the land, the density of the trees in the area, what types of trees there are, and the flowers that surround it. This must follow the procedure, or algorithm, that the developer has created. This ensures that a "tree" texture does not draw itself on the floor as grass, for example.

For a procedurally generated animation system, from my best assumption, EA has created a set of rules (likely based on physics such as momentum, player ratings, as well as a set of idle animation and joining animations) that must be "checked" on the fly, and the resulting SET of animations (ie outcome of the tackels) is based on these checks. In NFL 2k games (as far as I know) their solution to gang tackling was to call up a specific animation based on a situation. So as an example, one defender has a RB wrapped up. When a second player comes into the play, a specific pre-determined animation is called and the animation plays out as written more or less. Obviously they might decide based on ratings whether a certain animation is able to be called (ie a small DB not triggering a big hit knockdown)...but essentially the animation is called out completely as written by the animator.

With procedural tackling, this is not true at all. The rules or "procedures" are put into play and the animation can continue as long as it follows those guidelines. With the same example, now when a second player is added to the tackle, it will create it's own unique animation based on the situation and ratings...not simply "call up" a preexisting one. Ie based on the players momentum and ratings in one play he might knock the player over, but in another slightly different example where a offensive lineman is pushing behind the RB he might bounce back forward based on the specific conditions at the time. These animations are not written out "by hand" by an animator, they dynamically happen based on the conditions that the procedure dictates must be followed.

[canes21]

So are you saying that there are no animations with procedural tackling?

[NYyankz225]

Quote: Originally Posted by canes21

So are you saying that there are no animations with procedural tackling?

There are. It's just not "written out" by an animator before hand.

This is how a play works in a game like NFL 2K. Animations are short clips of movements created by an animator. For example, we saw a non procedural running animation in Ian's new video. These are called up by the game based on a player's rating so that a heavy Olineman doesn't run like Chad Johnson. Thousands upon thousands of these animations are created. Throughout the play, the "engine" will call up specific animations that were created beforehand based on the situation.

Let's say you have a player going to make a catch. In the animation database there are over 100 catch animations lets say. ONE of these predetermined animations are chosen based on a ratings check (is he a highlight catch receiver?) and other processes (Is there a defender in front of him? Is the ball far in front of him so that he needs to dive?). The game is essential a series of individual segments that are "spliced" together to create an entire play.

With a procedural system there are still animations involved of course...but there is not a specific predetermined "animation set" that dictates the outcome of the gang tackle. I'm probably not explaining it as clearly as it should be. Tacklers that are added to the pile are calling up predetermined animations invidually (just like the forest example calls up preexisting textures and objects but randomly generates the entire picture), but they entire situation as a whole based on the procedure rather than a scripted pre recorded event, in a sense. I hope that makes a bit more sense.

If you know anything about music think of it as a jazz player improvising as opposed to reading sheet music. The improviser still follows a set of rules (chord progression, time signature of the piece, what scale it's in, etc), but he chooses how to play it as it's going on. This is how procedural systems work essentially.

With sheet music you follow exactly what it says and there is no room for changing things on the fly.

[canes21]

So you are saying instead of a WR just doing animation A, he is instead taking in all the info of where the defense is, the ball's location, his location and the game takes all that info and selects an animation hat has the highest chance of catching the ball?

Could we see this with one man tackles?

[Valdarez]

Quote: Originally Posted by NYyankz225

Procedural systems has been gaining popularity in gaming development over the years so I have a general understanding of them. As I said, procedural in a general sense means that the animation, art assets, properties, etc., is determined by an algorithm created by the developers as opposed to a prewritten animation.

Procedural systems? Then procedural tackling at the end. Man, between procedural awareness, procedural languages, and now procedural systems, I'm not really sure what to think. I know languages and software, but I'm no game developer. I actually had to look up and see if there was any combination of procedural + animations and it looks like there is, strangely enough called procedural animations which seems to be the procedural systems you are referring to in your response. From a software language standpoint, which is what I was interpreting your message, it's a completely different animal.

Again, where did you read that each tackle would be different and that their were using procedural animations for the Pro Tak?

Also there's other aspects of the game other than the tackling that are all procedurally based, to say that APF2K8 didn't have it is incorrect.

What NYyankz225 is saying is that a set of inputs determines the execution path for the animation instead of simply determining the canned animation to execute. The execution path of the animation will determine how the player's model is animated (where the hands land, how the legs bend, and so forth). It is different. I'm very surprised to hear ProTak described this way, because I haven't read anything from the developers that describe as such yet, and all I can go by is what I have read.