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Adaptive AI - Play Based vs Route Based

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Old 04-12-2009, 11:21 AM   #9
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Re: Adaptive AI - Play Based vs Route Based

... in Madden... there aren't that many different plays in Madden.
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Old 04-12-2009, 11:24 AM   #10
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Re: Adaptive AI - Play Based vs Route Based

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Originally Posted by bgeno
... in Madden... there aren't that many different plays in Madden.
Generation 1, Generation 2, Generation 3 playbooks have so many different plays. Seriously, if you've never tried them, you should. They make the game much better on offense.

These plays are so good, EA banned them online.
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Old 04-12-2009, 11:27 AM   #11
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Re: Adaptive AI - Play Based vs Route Based

I wonder how many plays a NFL coach put in a game plan each week.
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Old 04-12-2009, 11:31 AM   #12
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Re: Adaptive AI - Play Based vs Route Based

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Originally Posted by mvb34
I wonder how many plays a NFL coach put in a game plan each week.
The bulk of plays will be installed in the pre-season/training camp.

But I'd say, up to 5 new plays are installed each week.
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Old 04-12-2009, 01:10 PM   #13
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Re: Adaptive AI - Play Based vs Route Based

Firstly, I have a few NFL playbooks laying around (97 Lions and Buc and somewhere 94 Chiefs) plus a Jets defensive book from the 80s and a few different college ones.

There just aren't that many different plays. They are different if you think running a 12 yard out is different then running a 12 yard out, but sitting down in the hole. It also can change from into a 10 yard out or 14 yard out based on the corner (Cover 2 will go deeper, Cover 3 will be shorter).

Thats the same play, 5 different ways.

This is even more prominent when you get to pass protectins and other blocking schemes. There are literally dozens of different pass pro's an NFL team will use. A basic flood pattern can be blocked atleast 5 different ways (assuming a rollout), a few more if you add in PA. That doesn't change that its a flood play.

Don't confuse a "play" and an adjustment. I'd venture to guess there are roughly 150-200ish unique plays in an NFL playbook. Out of which a decent chunk aren't ever installed. Another decent chunk will never be used (based on personel).

Most of them that I've talked too (College and Pro) usually say they have about 80-100 plays in every week and only about 35-50 are really used during the game.

Last edited by Sven Draconian; 04-12-2009 at 01:33 PM.
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Old 04-12-2009, 01:27 PM   #14
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Re: Adaptive AI - Play Based vs Route Based

^^^

WOW!

That's the most I've learned about football in a forum, ever! Good read!
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Old 04-12-2009, 02:06 PM   #15
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Re: Adaptive AI - Play Based vs Route Based

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Originally Posted by Exonerated
The bulk of plays will be installed in the pre-season/training camp.

But I'd say, up to 5 new plays are installed each week.
I think the question he asked was how many plays are usually used in a game plan not how many new plays are installed each week.

I never played at a real high level. I did 2 years of Pop Warner, 4 years of High School, and 1 year of Juco. I haven't played in about 10 years. I played WR, QB, WB, and CB. At the Juco level and High School I was a WR.

At each level the game preperation was obviously different. If I had to guess at the NFL I would say maybe 20-30 plays from a Playbook consisting of 100's of possibilites are probably practiced each week.

Here's a good article on Bill Walsh and how his gameplan/ preparation evolved at each of his stops. http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/20...-planning.html
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Old 04-12-2009, 02:37 PM   #16
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Re: Adaptive AI - Play Based vs Route Based

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Originally Posted by TombSong
In single player games I can understand people wanting "adaptive AI" for the cpu to use.

However the human players team should never have "adaptive ai" The human team should have a offensive/defensive coordinator that alerts him to the opponents tendencies, then you call a play based on your "adaptive ai"(your brain).

I would hate to have called a play thinking my players are gonna do one thing, only for them to do something else based on what the cpu thinks is gonna happen.

i can only control one player on defense, so when someone is using a play that can exploit multiple players in the defense the adaptive a.i. is needed for the human. for example using a fast qb like mcnabb and rolling him out with a receiver running an 8 yard crossing route across the field. right now i have a choice i can either control a player and have him cover the scramble of the qb or cover the crossing route by the wr. whatever i do the person im playing against can exploit the a.i. of the cpu for the other matchup.

so lets say i decide im gonna cover mcnabb with a linebacker while he rolls out, and ill keep my db in man coverage on the crossing route. the other player will see that i am covering the roll out so he will make the quick throw to a the wr for a decent gain each time, because my db will never "learn" that the crossing route is coming. this means he will never jump the route no matter how many times it is run. so i get tired of getting beat by the pass so i tell the backer to spy the qb and manually cover the wr. now the player sees that the scramble will be available because the a.i. is too dumb to cover the scramble by its self. the backer may get into position but nobody else on the defense will realize that a scramble is coming no matter how many times it happens in a row, leaving the player to make one person miss in order to get a decent gain while im covering the crossing route manually.

correct play call is only half the battle. it is still neccesary for a humans a.i. teamates to "learn" and cover things that the human player is not able to cover.

Last edited by mikeacard; 04-12-2009 at 02:39 PM.
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