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Old 04-20-2009, 06:44 PM   #97
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Re: Forced 3 step drop? What is this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NFLHITMAN
Calibrating the precision-timed passing attack: the QB's dropback has to be timed out with the receiver's break

*snip*
No one is arguing this.

I don't think I've seen a single person say a good drop isn't important.

The argument is a forced drop creates as many, if not more, problems than it solves.

Want the drop to matter more? How about giving a big boost to accuracy is the ball is thrown at the end of the drop to your primary receiver. You could have an automatic, though not forced, drop based on the primary's route. If you throw to him at the right time at the end of your drop, boom, great, accurate pass.

But since you're not forced into that drop, you can improvise if you know your primary won't be open. You won't get the accuracy boost, but you also won't feel frustrated over the arbitrary lack of control.

That seems like a totally reasonable compromise between stressing the importance of a drop while also allowing the user to actual control the QB he's controlling.
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Old 04-20-2009, 06:44 PM   #98
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Re: Forced 3 step drop? What is this?

I think if you were so concerned in a sight adjustment for a quick pass than it should be in the game. However if you try this and you don't pass it right away or try and run than the forced drop back happens immediately.
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Old 04-20-2009, 06:46 PM   #99
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Re: Forced 3 step drop? What is this?

Personally, I love this feature. It gives Madden the NFL2k5/APF2k8 momentum of a football play.

Of course, 2k5/2k8 had you hold down the left stick to do a drop and it was voluntary, but atleast Madden is finally implementing some type of momentum.
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Old 04-20-2009, 06:51 PM   #100
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Re: Forced 3 step drop? What is this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Von Dozier
Personally, I love this feature. It gives Madden the NFL2k5/APF2k8 momentum of a football play.

Of course, 2k5/2k8 had you hold down the left stick to do a drop and it was voluntary, but atleast Madden is finally implementing some type of momentum.
That is inaccurate. If you want to run with the QB you had to hold the trigger to do so. Once you hit the button to hike and you do nothing the A.I. will drop you back to the correct amount of steps according to your primary WR.

Believe me I play this game everyday.
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Old 04-20-2009, 06:54 PM   #101
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Re: Forced 3 step drop? What is this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnKill
How is it real football when you are denied the ability to make a throw that is made every sunday in the NFL (quick pass to WR).
Why wouldn't you just audible to the play you want? Audible to a quick slant and the dropback should change accordingly. I'm pretty sure that even in the past next gen Maddens, the drop-step varied according to what play was called. The timing wasn't where I wanted it to be in the past, but I thought there were different drop steps at least, no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LBzrule
We were forced to drop on every pass in the CD build. I had no problems making the passes I wanted. Neither did I have problems getting outside the pocket when I wanted (which is going to get fixed). I got out of the pocket a lot . No worries, they will fix it.
I had pretty much no problems making the passes I wanted neither. I'll detail the only issue I had below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnKill
But it sounds to me like if you wanted to make the snap, turn, throw pass (without a drop) you would not be able to ... correct?
Please take no offense to this 'bro. But you're really thinking on one side of the ball. You basically want to turn around and pass with no dropback and have a completely accurate throw, right? Well, how unfair is that for the defense? What if the defensive pressure is forcing you to rush your throw but you're able to let off an accurate pass despite being rushed, you should still be rewarded? I understand your gripe but you can't think of how it affects one side of the ball. To me, this dropback functions in a way similar to 2K's. Most sim gamers love the dropbacks in 2K including myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnKill
Ok, that would be my issue then. In the NFL QBs can and do snap and throw if they see something they like, and I think we should be able to do the same in M10.
But not at the expense of nullifying the defensive pressure...not in my opinion anyway. Madden has been geared to the offense for too long with the exception of the turnover issues in Madden 08.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnKill
Are some plays going to drop my QB back 5 steps or 7 depending on the primary WR? Or are we only forced 3 steps and after that we can do whatever we want... is it always 3 steps only?
There were different dropbacks in our build varying by primary receiver. But again, hasn't it always been that way? I don't own a current copy of Madden so I can't check off-hand for you.

Now while on the subject of dropbacks, I did encounter one issue and I hope that it's fixed ASAP. I already sent this to the dev team. When trying to execute a timing route, the QB sometimes came off his back foot even after completing his drop. I don't know if the "breaking point" or what have you was too sensitive, but it made it tough to execute well-timed passes. I should be able to do what Matt Shaub does in this video:

Matt Schaub

If you watched the video, you see the QB drops back and passes almost all in one smooth motion. This is what I need in the passing game and too often I came off my back foot when trying to execute a pass as simple as this.
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Old 04-20-2009, 06:55 PM   #102
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Re: Forced 3 step drop? What is this?

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Originally Posted by Pnutt6
Agreed.
Just to clarify, I am not in favor of a 3,5, or 7 step drop you cannot break out of, and I don't believe we are getting that. You will be able to break out of it and that kind of nullifies the term "forced drop back". What I think we'll get is a drop that you are required to take the first 2 steps of before you can break out of it which I feel is realistic. The only time the QB does anything in his first step is when it is planned. Unless a play is called that calls for a 1 step, you should be forced to start your drop.

This would prevent unrealistic rollouts and instant throws.

You're arriving at the wrong conclusion because you're not asking the right question.

Why wouldn't you want to throw the ball instantly in real life?

What is an unrealistic rollout, and why does it not happen in real life?

Answer those questions and you'll solve this problem properly because neither one of these things have anything to do with forced drop backs.
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Old 04-20-2009, 06:56 PM   #103
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Re: Forced 3 step drop? What is this?

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Originally Posted by Glorious Arc
I about cried when I heard you say this lol

That means if I get a player who has a good arm there is almost no point in sitting him over a QB with a worse arm but higher awareness. This doesnt happen in the NFL. Otherwise all rookies who could throw the ball in college with strength and accuracy would be amazing in the NFL. Awareness needs to matter and this would help make a difference.
Well not true at all. Don't get me wrong, I HATE the fact that in Madden 09 Andrew Walters was a great QB because he had good THP and THA and AWR didn't matter.

I'm basing my statements on the information that QBs will now have more stats to deal with, Short, Medium and Long passes, PA among other things.

I loved how the PS2 used AWR where if you had bad AWR your QB would not throw very well and also it would effect how quickly the vision cone shifted, but the cone is done so that element is gone.

I want good QBs to stand out from crappy QBs even when controlled by a human, especially when controlled by a human and it sounds to me like the additional QB ratings will play a big role into that... but I want to see even more. Like I mentioned alreayd I'd love to see a drop back rating, which determines how well a QB drops back and how in synch he will be with the route ran by the WR when his drop back is complete.

In Fact, a WRs route running skills should also play a big role into that.

So if you have P. Manning and M. Harrison their drop back, throw and route breaks should be almost perfect.

Another great stat would be a team work or chemistry stat, where in franchise mode the more your QB played with a WR the more chemestry they would develop which in turn would help with the timing of routes and throws, etc...etc...

There's lots of room for improvement and intriguing depth in this area, and I hope EA will take us into the right direction here.
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Old 04-20-2009, 07:02 PM   #104
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Re: Forced 3 step drop? What is this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgiles36
Please take no offense to this 'bro. But you're really thinking on one side of the ball. You basically want to turn around and pass with no dropback and have a completely accurate throw, right? Well, how unfair is that for the defense? What if the defensive pressure is forcing you to rush your throw but you're able to let off an accurate pass despite being rushed, you should still be rewarded? I understand your gripe but you can't think of how it affects one side of the ball. To me, this dropback functions in a way similar to 2K's. Most sim gamers love the dropbacks in 2K including myself.
Then apply a penalty to the QB accuracy if there's X defenders within Y yards of the QB. That would replicate a QB being less accurate if he's feeling pressure. Some sort of Composure rating could lessen the effect for really good QBs and increase the effect for worse QBs.

Done and done. You can still make a snap throw if you see someone wide open (you wouldn't get my proposed accuracy boost for completing a good drop, though), but you'd suffer a hit to your accuracy if you tried a quick throw while you're being pressured.

Taking control away from a user should only be done when no good options are available and I certainly don't think we've exhausted all potential good options.
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