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Forced 3 step drop? What is this?

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Old 04-20-2009, 09:29 PM   #121
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Re: Forced 3 step drop? What is this?

I think this is a real catch-22 and I definitely see both sides, but the key is to stay realistic.

First, as for the "smoke" throws seen on run/pass options: I don't see a realistic way for this to be implemented. I just think that there's too much going on programming wise for a player to be able to throw the ball on a called running play. I don't, however, think that the 1 step throws should be omitted from the game. They do happen and they should be included, if only as called or audibled plays.

Second, sight adjustments: There absolutely needs to be the ability to throw BSA's. How else can an offense counter an overload-style blitz that comes away from the protection? This is an integral part of offensive football and is one of the first things taught to QB's; what defender(s) will not be blocked. There is only 2 ways to account for this, either the play itself has some kind of built in "hot" (flares, shallows, etc.) or a specific receiver must adjust his route to account for the unblocked rusher. This is a learned skill and not all players do this equally, although most QB's become aware of who isn't going to blocked rather quickly. Once again, I have no ideas about how to implement this. It seems pretty unlikely to figure that the programmers (most of whom don't understand the game all that well, really including most of the people that buy and play the game) would even be capable of doing this. The current adjustment is to either call plays that have built in hots or to slide the protection or change the backs assignment if it looks like you might get overloaded.

The other problem is how to account for the QB throwing the ball well before it should be thrown. This is a huge problem and in no circumstance should a user be able to complete passes to receivers when the receiver should not be looking for the ball.

I really think that a button push to get out of the animation could alleviate most of the "problems" regarding the so-called forced drops, but by no means is this the end-all on the matter. I would like to see some other suggestions, but I think some of the arguing in this thread is way off base and replies should be kept to how to solve the problem.
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Old 04-20-2009, 09:46 PM   #122
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Re: Forced 3 step drop? What is this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnKill
Broken Record here, but have you not seen plays in the real NFL where the QB snaps, turns and throws to a WR that has the DB playing too loose? That play has NO drop back what so ever...
Most of the time the QB has made that decision prior to the ball ever leaving the centers hand (hence what everyone's told you about quick adjustments). You hot route that receiver and make his the primary target, altering the drop back.

That said, the QB takes at least a one step drop to get out from under center in every play. He also plants (unless totally impossible in context) and releases the ball quickly. It is not one sudden movement from the centers backside to the QB's release, but rather a very quick motion (series of movements including, whether you can see it or not, a quick drop back). Find me one play, at any level, where the QB, lined up under center DOES NOT MOVE HIS FEET AT ALL DURING THE PLAY (drop back) prior to releasing the ball.
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Old 04-20-2009, 10:12 PM   #123
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Re: Forced 3 step drop? What is this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tennesseetitans
Most of the time the QB has made that decision prior to the ball ever leaving the centers hand (hence what everyone's told you about quick adjustments). You hot route that receiver and make his the primary target, altering the drop back.

That said, the QB takes at least a one step drop to get out from under center in every play. He also plants (unless totally impossible in context) and releases the ball quickly. It is not one sudden movement from the centers backside to the QB's release, but rather a very quick motion (series of movements including, whether you can see it or not, a quick drop back). Find me one play, at any level, where the QB, lined up under center DOES NOT MOVE HIS FEET AT ALL DURING THE PLAY (drop back) prior to releasing the ball.
The way I see it the QB gets the ball, then turns towards the WR, plants feet accordingly and fires the ball. I don't think there's an actual drop back, but if there is and it is a one step drop back then that should be in the game. Forcing a 3 step drop back would still make this play impossible.
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Old 04-20-2009, 10:26 PM   #124
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Re: Forced 3 step drop? What is this?

I was under the impression that the drop backs were in accordance to the primary route (1,3,5, and so on). If not, then they should be, and a quick/one step drop should definitely be an option on quick routes.
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Old 04-20-2009, 10:42 PM   #125
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Re: Forced 3 step drop? What is this?

Why not just give us the option to turn this feature on and off? I think forcing the QB to drop back is a little bit of a game killer. If a player try to throw the ball before his initial 3 steps, and it's not a lob in the endzone, then the ball shouldn't be thrown with much accuracy. Forcing a mandatory drop back is a band aid way of trying to keep the cheesers in check and I think the force drop back is a bad idea.
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Old 04-20-2009, 10:49 PM   #126
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Re: Forced 3 step drop? What is this?

Let people take a 1 step drop if they so choose. Just make sure you have accurate pass protection.

Guard steps back, your QB trips. DT steps up, hits your QB.

QB's have to take the designated drop because they will get crushed if they dont. A 3 step proection is completley different then a 5 step. If your guards are anticipating a 5 step drop, and you only take one step back, you just broke your wirst from banging it off a helmet.

The little quick screen should be a play (with a 1 step drop) and an audible option.

People like Shotgun style are the reason for the expression "A little knowledge is dangerous in the wrong hands." You don't understand sight adjustments and you don't understand hot reads, so stop pretending like you do.

You don't sight adjust from a 15 yard dig into a hitch. You sight adjust from a 15 yard dig to a 12 yard curl to a skinny post. Its based off the reaction of a, singular, particular defender.

Read some of Walsh's stuff (I'm assuming you read an article or something, therefore making you an expert). A sight adjustment is based on particular coverage within the same concepts. A hot read is either communicated before the play, or more likely, built in to the play based on that particular opponents tendencies or by their formation.

That doesn't change the dropback. For example, if a hot read modifies a play it will modifty it within the framework of the designed play. That is, a backside post morphing to a slant would likely occur on a package with a 3 step drop. Assuming that the blitzers out number the blockers the QB will have to throw it off a back foot, or accept the contact while throwing.

if the hot read isn't possible based on the defense, you'll likely see the true audible (or a TO).
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Old 04-20-2009, 11:10 PM   #127
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Re: Forced 3 step drop? What is this?

Draconian nailed it. If the game simulated real life conditions, the drop back would occur entirely voluntary (either you did it right or bad things would happen). However, until they reach that level of simulation, I think a forced drop back is the only way to ensure somewhat realistic play.
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Old 04-20-2009, 11:14 PM   #128
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Re: Forced 3 step drop? What is this?

^^Good points and well said Drac...
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