Difference Between Models in Madden and APF2K8

[SomeStrangeSin]

i think the problem is the camera view in madden its farther back. i hope they have a simular 2k camera in the game. but other then that i hate the midget feel to madden.

[TheWatcher]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

I see a difference in the color pallete, but not in the animations / movements drawing. If the 60 FPS isn't giving us anything visually and it's hampering them from providing other features, then drop it to 30 FPS and bring the stadium and sidelines to life.

I made that case many times. But they just aren't going to budge here.

But what's strange is that when the game ran at 30 they talked about the incredible difficulty of having Refs, Chain gangs, and other things. I find it awfully strange that they're able to do this now at 60 FPS when they say they couldn't do it at 30 FPS. Technically speaking, it's a lot harder to do this at 60.

I pleaded a case to Ian here for having the option to choose your frame rate and detail level like a number of PC games have. He said he ran it by the team and they weren't thrilled with the idea

I just think way too much was made of the necessity to have 60 frames. I've seen it do nothing but hold us back graphically and in other ways and I haven't seen this Holy Grail improvement in the way the game plays just because we how have 60 frames.

Madden 10 certainly plays better, but 09 played better than 08 and neither of those games having improved have anything at all to do with 60 frames. It's all in the animation system and how they improve on that.

If I had a 30 frames option with ultra detail I'd be using that exclusively. Think about all that we've lost since going 60 frames:

*Player size

*Player detail

*Crowd detail

*Constant Head Coach presence

*Progressive Lighting

*Overall lighting quality

*3D Grass (although I was never a big fan)

*Stadium structural detail losses

I hope Next Generation this isn't even an issue. But I've never believed in doing anything that's going to bring down an essential part in a tremendous way. Yes, gameplay is the most important thing, but if graphics didn't matter we'd still be playing NES.

[TheWatcher]

Quote: Originally Posted by CzecHitYou

Bottom line: to me 30 fps = less control = less fun = less immersion = less SIM...see where I'm going. I don't mean to be rude, I just thought you would like to hear my side of the 30 vs. 60 shenanigan..

That's actually a myth. Unless you're running at like 15 frames (lol), it's the animation system that ultimately determines your level of control.

Madden 06 and 07 had a clunky animation system. Many games ran at 30 frames for at least 2 generations and we played them fine, and when we go back and play them now they still play fine.

I think people's gripes about the PS3 version of Madden 08 being bad because of 30 frames is greatly exaggerated. I played that version extensively and found little difference to the 360 version. Both games sucked. The only reason I could even point to the PS3 version being 30 frames is because I had the 360 version. 30 frames didn't make Madden 08 on PS3 a bad game; shoddy programming, and bad ideas made Madden 08 for PS3 a bad game.

[TheWatcher]

Quote: Originally Posted by ThaReaper09

Yes, the human eye can only see 30 FPS. But, if you look at the difference in graphics and detail between the 360 and PS3 versions of NCAA Football 08, you will know why 60 FPS is a good thing.

Actually, you're forced to cut detail at 60 frames. At 30 you're able to have an increase.

If NCAA 08 looked worse on PS3 it had to do with how the game was made, not the fact that it was 30 frames. If they wanted, at 30 they could've added a lot more detail, they just didn't. At the time, the PS3 wasn't treated very well when it came to mult-platform games.

[TheWatcher]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

Someone posted the PS3 / XBox 360 versions where one was 30 the other 60 and other than the color pallete the graphics were identical. As for a 60 FPS giving you more control, I'm sorry but that makes no sense what so ever. FPS refers to the frames per second that the game is drawn. The input to the game should be the same regardless of the rendering speed.

They lose some visual speed, so I think they take that to translate to control.

[Valdarez]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheWatcher

They lose some visual speed, so I think they take that to translate to control.

Yeah, I thought about that, but really 30 fps to 60 fps isn't going to make enough of a difference visually for you to feel a control.

I still am left wondering if the 60 FPS isn't the culprit for the stuttering I'm seeing when I play, which makes it look like there are missing frames. It would be ironic if more FPS actually makes the game look worse (which is what the article I listed suggested). When you do a replay in slow motion, the game is solid as all get out and looks great, but when the game is played at full speed, it appears as though it's stuttering, or there are missing frames. Three weeks late now, and still no response as to the cause of this from Ian.

[CzecHitYou]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

As for a 60 FPS giving you more control, I'm sorry but that makes no sense what so ever. FPS refers to the frames per second that the game is drawn. The input to the game should be the same regardless of the rendering speed.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/featur...o_.php?print=1

"Game developers also have to make the decision of whether to go with 60fps or 30fps. 60fps will generally have half the response time of 30fps, which can be a deciding factor (along with the smoother motion, which is visually more appealing on fast moving games)"

It is not a myth that 60fps games can give more control, because they can have a lower response time than games that run at 30 fps.

NOW, as for Madden, you could have more detail at 30 fps, but this could lower the response time.

All in all, I just wish we could have the best-est of both worlds, lol.

[Moostache]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

I think the camera angle used in Madden is another culprit with detracting from the realism. Madden's camera keeps you zoomed out, away from the action. Once we have the rock, they need to put us IN the action, as close as possible while still making the game playable. That's one area that APF2K8 really nailed in the running game.

Definitely a winner there...^^^^

This is where customizable camera angles come into play...on APF2K8 and NFL2K5 I use a very tight custom camera (with auto pull-back on passing plays. The net effect is that on running plays I run from an angle that many people would initially feel is too tight - but sacrificing vision field for greater immersion is a trade-off I am willing to use.

I strongly urge EA to put the user selectable camera angles back into the game (AND to allow them to be used in online and offline matches - just like everything else!)...

For me personally, that added immersion is much more due to selecting the camera than the animations or the frame rate.