Next Blog and what game sites/mags should be asking

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

Ok, underestood. I'm not sure where you are going in the second paragraph. Are you saying people in general or myself over-react when someone questions a screen shot or a mini video? I don't recall saying that in this thread??? As far as Pro-Tak, I'm waiting to see more game play video before I make any preliminary conclusions regarding OL/DL interaction. I know LBz has some good material on this information during the 10 wish list time frame. He would take videos from 2k8 and 2k5 and compare them with Madden. I'm sure his attendance at CD was well represented in those areas. Maybe if LBz reads this thread, he can chime in and respond, but I'm not sure how much more he can reveal than already was put out there.

It's sorta hard to comment right now actually. Some things to take note of.

What we see right now with Pro-Tak from what I understand is simply the framework and it hasn't even been tweaked yet. The things that we asked for, which are possible with Pro-Tak:

1) Run Plays - OL and DL moving toward the point of attack - steering on run plays
2) Dline moves - different engage points; Dlinemen performing a move without engaging to set up the Olineman with another move.
3) More hand fighting when steering

As for compared to 2k. I will say this like I said the night before we played the game. I expect the OL vs DL to be comparable to 2k5 but with a pocket (2k5 did not have a pocket). But I do not expect it to have the "pass defender off" logic that 2k8 has.

Some areas where I hope they do better than 2k8:

The speed of the pass rush should not vary when the QB is under center vs QB in the Gun. 2k8 had a problem with this. This is why I keep emphasizing that the DE's and OLB's need to get up the field a lot faster, because I know from 2k8 it does not matter that you have a pocket. It matters how fast it sets up. Against sim players just having a pocket is fine, but against the cheese it aint. If they do not set up fast then guys will still run outside or run backwards (although I tried running backwards and it felt really awkward). I was able to run outside in the CD build. Most of my passes were incomplete, but just being able to get out of there more than I would have liked struck me. Don't worry it was heavily emphasized on the feedback.

No OLB take off crashes on the blitz.

Another problem 2k8 had and one that Madden 09 had, was the OLB's and sometimes the ILB's and MLB's on the blitz. In 2k8 the problem was they took way too many short choppy steps. The developers referred to these as crashes (they also referred to the ILB's not moving against the run in 2k8 as crashes) ; so it was a bug that needed to be worked out. Madden 09 had a similar problem. The players did not look like they exploded out of their stances. It looked like they were struggling to move, like turtles. Madden 10, I'm hoping will not have these.

Dline Stunts

Madden 09 Dline stunt execution was pretty damn bad. Players ran too far. There was no penetrator/loop/twist in the animations. Guys bumped into each other. I have made note of all of these. Whether all of the plays get addressed, we'll have to wait and see.

Dline stunt audibles

Here is where I like to have a discussion with Ian to see if we can custom our Dline audible calls. For me, now that they have a pocket in place, I see no need for fan stunt call. Secondly, I'm not sure I see a need for All In either, if the defenders are going to be steering or be steered towards the Point of Attack. So it would be really nice if I can custom my Dline audibles and have options that are already in the game.

DT Twist Stunt - one penetrator; one looper. This stunt worked great in 2k3-2k5. Very bad in 2k8; probably due to the glitch from 2k5. But you could run alot of stunts with this in 2k3-5 without cheesing. I looked at this stunt on CD because I knew it was bad in Madden 09. I drew Ian's attention to it and he got it working better for one play. But, I'd like this to be an option for us.

Jet Stunt Half line DT and DE


Jet Stunt Full line DT's and DE's

That video is the best example I've seen of Jet stunt. It basically renders the offensive guard useless and forces the offensive tackle to guess. Now 2k5 and 2k8 had these. In 2k5 they were precise and when you called them that's what the line executed, whether the QB was under center or not. In 2k8 this was not the case. You don't know what you are going to get when you make that call. Sometimes they will perform the stunt and sometimes they will not. I hated that inconsistency F'ed up alot of my blitzes LOL.

I haven't even talked about defense that I think they should add. I see some people have in their mind that LBz done sold out. Nahh, it aint that. I'm just going to give credit to what I think they have done right and what I think they have an opportunity to do. THEY still have to do it though. In all the feedback I gave it was mostly defense and the emphasis was on fixing the old stuff and giving us new toys to play with. Whether we get them, we'll have to wait and see.

[Outkizast]

^^ and this is why you're the ONE OS poster that i will read ALL of your comments...

I appreciate all the feedback you have given to give the Defense more love...

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

It's sorta hard to comment right now actually. Some things to take note of. What we see right now with Pro-Tak from what I understand is simply the framework and it hasn't even been tweaked yet. The things that we asked for, which are possible with Pro-Tak: 1) Run Plays - OL and DL moving toward the point of attack - steering on run plays 2) Dline moves - different engage points; Dlinemen performing a move without engaging to set up the Olineman with another move. 3) More hand fighting when steering As for compared to 2k. I will say this like I said the night before we played the game. I expect the OL vs DL to be comparable to 2k5 but with a pocket (2k5 did not have a pocket). But I do not expect it to have the "pass defender off" logic that 2k8 has. Some areas where I hope they do better than 2k8: The speed of the pass rush should not vary when the QB is under center vs QB in the Gun. 2k8 had a problem with this. This is why I keep emphasizing that the DE's and OLB's need to get up the field a lot faster, because I know from 2k8 it does not matter that you have a pocket. It matters how fast it sets up. Against sim players just having a pocket is fine, but against the cheese it aint. If they do not set up fast then guys will still run outside or run backwards (although I tried running backwards and it felt really awkward). I was able to run outside in the CD build. Most of my passes were incomplete, but just being able to get out of there more than I would have liked struck me. Don't worry it was heavily emphasized on the feedback. No OLB take off crashes on the blitz. Another problem 2k8 had and one that Madden 09 had, was the OLB's and sometimes the ILB's and MLB's on the blitz. In 2k8 the problem was they took way too many short choppy steps. The developers referred to these as crashes (they also referred to the ILB's not moving against the run in 2k8 as crashes) ; so it was a bug that needed to be worked out. Madden 09 had a similar problem. The players did not look like they exploded out of their stances. It looked like they were struggling to move, like turtles. Madden 10, I'm hoping will not have these. Dline Stunts Madden 09 Dline stunt execution was pretty damn bad. Players ran too far. There was no penetrator/loop/twist in the animations. Guys bumped into each other. I have made note of all of these. Whether all of the plays get addressed, we'll have to wait and see. Dline stunt audibles Here is where I like to have a discussion with Ian to see if we can custom our Dline audible calls. For me, now that they have a pocket in place, I see no need for fan stunt call. Secondly, I'm not sure I see a need for All In either, if the defenders are going to be steering or be steered towards the Point of Attack. So it would be really nice if I can custom my Dline audibles and have options that are already in the game. DT Twist Stunt - one penetrator; one looper. This stunt worked great in 2k3-2k5. Very bad in 2k8; probably due to the glitch from 2k5. But you could run alot of stunts with this in 2k3-5 without cheesing. I looked at this stunt on CD because I knew it was bad in Madden 09. I drew Ian's attention to it and he got it working better for one play. But, I'd like this to be an option for us. Jet Stunt Half line DT and DE Jet Stunt Full line DT's and DE's That video is the best example I've seen of Jet stunt. It basically renders the offensive guard useless and forces the offensive tackle to guess. Now 2k5 and 2k8 had these. In 2k5 they were precise and when you called them that's what the line executed, whether the QB was under center or not. In 2k8 this was not the case. You don't know what you are going to get when you make that call. Sometimes they will perform the stunt and sometimes they will not. I hated that inconsistency F'ed up alot of my blitzes LOL. I haven't even talked about defense that I think they should add. I see some people have in their mind that LBz done sold out. Nahh, it aint that. I'm just going to give credit to what I think they have done right and what I think they have an opportunity to do. THEY still have to do it though. In all the feedback I gave it was mostly defense and the emphasis was on fixing the old stuff and giving us new toys to play with. Whether we get them, we'll have to wait and see.

Thanks for the valuable feedback.

[CreatineKasey]

Any comments on block shedding/unique tackling that you are allowed to share Lbz?

One thing I REALLY enjoy in 2k8 is shedding blocks and holding gaps, even with my LB's. I like how a good defender has "control" of the blocker and is able to shed and move him, but maybe not completely run free.

I also love the fact that there's tackle types for all situations. Reach tackles with a blocker on your man are game changing. Having big hits be DIFFICULT to execute based on the SITUATION is very important. Being able to wrap-up and maybe give up a few extra grinded yards or try to lay a harder hit to stop all progress.

Is there any word on ball strip animations particularly on the QB? Do fumbles occur at the QB position more often like they should when they are hit?

If you can't answer any of these I'll have higher hopes for this game

[LBzrule]

Some minor things that I hope we can get an update on are things like the 3-4 OLB stances.

Demarcus Ware


In the CD build I noticed Ware with this stance, but then he'd pop out of it and back into that old stance. This is minor and should be something relatively easy to fix. All 3-4 OLB's play with their inside foot forward and show the thread of pass rush UNLESS they are not the edge rusher and another backer lines up outside of them.

James Harrison gets really low in his stance.


LaMarr Woodley


I need to see what the update is with this actually. They need more pop out of their stances when they are rushing. I'm not fond of the "carefulness" that has been a part of games of the pass.

[Skyboxer]

Nice thread...

For me it's been pretty much the same for years.
I want a game where having a good gameplan and good players matter. As an example: If you have a stellar secondary vs pretty weak wr's you should be able for the most part be secure in knowing the passing game or at least the majority of the passing game of the opponent will be a mute point thus allowing you to put more focus on stopping the running game.

Basically I want ratings to matter and have a larger gap in abilities to make drafting and free agency much more important, rather just another step in franchise that doesn't mean a whole lot in the end.

I want a game where sometimes things just happen. Wr slips making a cut, QB trips leaving center, bad QB/RB exchange etc..

I want a game where I finally say THIS IS FOOTBALL.

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by Skyboxer

Nice thread... For me it's been pretty much the same for years. I want a game where having a good gameplan and good players matter. As an example: If you have a stellar secondary vs pretty weak wr's you should be able for the most part be secure in knowing the passing game or at least the majority of the passing game of the opponent will be a mute point thus allowing you to put more focus on stopping the running game. Basically I want ratings to matter and have a larger gap in abilities to make drafting and free agency much more important, rather just another step in franchise that doesn't mean a whole lot in the end. I want a game where sometimes things just happen. Wr slips making a cut, QB trips leaving center, bad QB/RB exchange etc.. I want a game where I finally say THIS IS FOOTBALL.

I can say one of the things I was most satisfied with were the stretched ratings. It did help individual players stand out alot more. Now for that other stuff you are referring too (WR's slipping, QB trips, ect), hmmmmmmm, we'll just have to wait and see.

[ghostlight85]

I'd like to start seeing some of the details and more in depth stuff about franchise and progression and the like. The majority of my time is spent in franchise, and I want to know if it's going to be what it used to be in last gen and hopefully more.

I'd also like to see more detail about OL/DL interaction and double teams in appropriate situations. WR's taking more effective angles to the ball that show an awareness of DBs also making plays on the ball.